So, there’s been a lot of recent cries that the pyro, saddled with his new Pack, is overpowered.
I admit feeling this at times, especially after being roasted to a crisp by a backburner faster that you can microwave a poptart. After crumpling, yet again, into a gooey heap of melting flesh, I’ve thought, “This sucks. Fucking Pyro Pack.” I’ve found myself switching to pyro simply so I cannot be lit on fire by all of the other pyros. I haven’t ragequit over it, but I’ve had some mild, private rage, or at least exasperation, after being scorched by a series of crit flames from the back, front, sides, and above, or all at once, repeatedly throughout a match.
Granted, I’ve never thought the pyro was underpowered (except when playing one myself) and I’ve always found them tricky to deal with. Even with flame damage falloff, catching on fire is a pain — you have to go heal, especially as one of the wimpier classes, you can’t aim well as a sniper while on fire, and as a medic you can quickly make your patients whole again but you yourself remain singed.
Facing them as a demo, my stickybombs seem to always launch the charging pyro right into my lap. I have a bit more luck as a soldier, but even still, they can jump and weave and catch me reloading (and now they can rebound my rockets). A single whiff of flame as a Scout and, well, I might as well run right back out of the enemy base and find a health kit. Mowing them down as a heavy is fun enough, but the more talented pyros can strafe right around you. I won’t even bring up what pyros do to me when I’m spying.
So, as a whole, I’ve always found pyros problematic. And now, to me, they’re more than a problem. They’re an overproblem. It’s hard, I admit, not to feel like they’re too powerful now.
But I found this post on the Steam forums that has given me a bit of perspective on the matter.
The poster asks you to imagine that the medic’s ubercharge wasn’t part of the original gameplay of TF2. Imagine it only came along a couple months ago, as part of his update pack. Imagine the outcry if, suddenly, this useful yet relatively harmless medic was able to charge something called his “uber meter” and then render his patient completely invulnerable to damage for ten seconds.
Imagine this wasn’t a familiar staple of gameplay from the beginning. The outcry would be enormous. WTF! The medic is overpowered! The game balance is destroyed! I’m not playing TF2 anymore until the medic is nerfed! It should be five seconds! It should be two seconds! Sentries are useless! Stickymines are worthless! Rockets are pointless! The patient shouldn’t be invulnerable, he should take at least half-damage! The medic should still be vulnerable! The uber meter should charge more slowly! The medic should move more slowly! The medic should explode after using it and the player’s Steam account should be deleted and their computer should be confiscated! Valve has ruined TF2!
I think it’s a great point. The pyro has been beefed up, no doubt. He’s got new gear, new uses, and new life. Gamplay will change to accommodate these changes, and while they seem a bit extreme now, like the uber would be if it were suddenly introduced, we’ll get used to it. Right? Right.
Of course, I wrote this whole goddamn post only to see a Steam update tweaking the pyro (among other things) a moment ago. Swell. Well, I’m posting it anyway.
Some falloff to flamethrower damage has been returned, and the backburner’s critical hits have been adjusted to allow for greater accuracy in determining if the target really has his back to you.
Clearly, the pyro is underpowered again!
31 responses so far ↓
1 [@] Chronos[Ha-G] // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Good thing I read your whole post before commenting - I was going to just link to the update.
Are we going to hear this whining EVERY TIME a new pack is out? I’m pretty much betting on it at this point.
2 Bluebear // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:33 pm
Besides, all the people complaining about the Pyro pack, they just need to keep in mind that THERES STILL ALL THE OTHER PACKS to come.
Hell, the pyro could become a runt again.
3 AR // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:58 pm
I think Valve is doing quite well now. They fixed the issues with the Medic pack, now they’ve fixed the issues with the Pyro pack.
But I’m especially glad the “object would not rotate” bug is fixed. Man, that was annoying.
4 PsyWarrior // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:01 pm
Of course you’re going to be killed a lot by Pyros when they make up half the enemy team, and they have new weapons you haven’t worked out how to counter yet! I don’t get why people don’t understand this…
Soon, the pyro rush will die down and we’ll work out how to avoid being burnt to a crisp all the time… The balance will be restored.
5 Newt Pulsifer // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Nice post!
I agree with PsyWarrior. Maybe we are getting some consecutive upgrades on the future?
6 Trid3nt // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:16 pm
I think my major problems with the pyros is that the only class that can really consistently take out a pyro is… a pyro. The Sentrys can now be overcome with the flare gun, as can heavies, who on the whole panic when on fire. So what happens is a big goldrush where people go pyro.
7 rammingspeed42 // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:35 pm
That was a very interesting idea, and that should be brought up whenever some idiot whines about the pyros during a game. Thing is is that people aren’t really sure how to deal with the new face of the pyro yet. They’ll adjust, and soon, I think.
8 Turyx // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:41 pm
The main problem with the Pyro is that you don’t face just a Pyro…you face whole teams full of them, so the only solution is using pyro too
9 Draco_2k // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Valve ruined my brownies!
10 TheLinx // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Valve lied my cake! D:
11 jordan // Jul 1, 2008 at 6:38 pm
valve sappin’ mah pyro effectivness!
EeeeRRecteeen a dispenser!
wait, what am i on about? :D
WTF!
12 Tim // Jul 1, 2008 at 6:51 pm
To be fair, the Backburner WAS outrageously overpowered. The other weapons I have no problem with, but the Backburner… why would you ever NOT want to use it once you have it? Who cares if you couldn’t use the airblast, you got an extra 50 health and the infamously poor enemy-player-back-detection means it’s basically crit-city as soon as you click the fire button. I’m glad they’ve tuned the back detection, because I can’t count the number of times I’ve been crit-blasted in the face or from a rampaging side-Pyro :(
I’m glad they’ve tweaked the falloff as well, the Pyro’s gone a bit far towards long-range methinks. It’s good to see Valve keeping an eye on these things.
13 Dave // Jul 1, 2008 at 6:57 pm
Valve ruined the English language.
I mean, look at this crap!
“cake” -n
1. The most hilarious fucking word ever
2. A LIE LOL!!!!!111twelve?
3. A baked something-or-another, who really knows anymore?
14 Tiler // Jul 1, 2008 at 7:15 pm
The fact that only pyros are immune to flames means that the more pyros are on a server, the more likely that people will be a pyro.
I think the backburner needs some kind of nerf, though. An airburst doesn’t make up for 50hp and guaranteed crits.
15 Erik Z // Jul 1, 2008 at 7:17 pm
I thought that was a bug. Pyros would just walk right over me with their “Crit from any direction” backburner.
16 Coded One // Jul 1, 2008 at 7:31 pm
Hey, the official TF2 blog just updated announcing that the next pack is the Heavy.
Just thought you outta know.
17 Nophysicalbody // Jul 1, 2008 at 7:53 pm
I used to get really angry with all the pyros at first, because as soon as I went near any of them, I’d die almost instantly. It took me a little while to realise - I was being killed so rediculously quickly because I was caught in the jets of two or more pyros at once! Right now you have to treat pyros as you would soldiers - if you’re a slighly underpowered class, you just gotta run. I think people are annoyed at not being able to mow down pyros as easily before. Also, @ Tiller, I think the backburner is a great addition to the game. Before the pyro pack, you could’ve set up a perfect ambush on a heavy, or even any other class, you’d jump out, they’d be in a jet of flame for several seconds before catching on, turning around, and giving you a face full of bullets. If you were lucky they’d die from the afterburn. Now instead of a good 5 seconds of flame, in that same situation the enemy’d be toast. sure it’s glitchy, but then all the glitchyness I’ve noticed is it NOT critting while I’m behind someone.
18 J3553 // Jul 1, 2008 at 9:07 pm
Valve ruins EVERYTHING!!!!!!!
But they make good games, so I will let it pass.
19 McMustard // Jul 1, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Apparently heavy is next!(?) According to http://www.teamfortress.com:
“Goal: Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with.”
OVERPOWARED!
20 CitrusFreak // Jul 1, 2008 at 10:06 pm
I don’t get it, where is the favorite button.
Post this on the board so I can thank you.
21 O'Smiles // Jul 1, 2008 at 10:08 pm
The Backburner is kind of stupid. +50 health and seemingly random super-crits are ridiculously hefty bonuses. Why would anyone want to blast a rocket back at a Soldier when you can, instead, zig up to him and crit his face off while taking maybe 120 damage tops?
Speaking of Soldiers, I used to have no problem killing pyros as one, before they stopped dying after 2-3 well-placed rockets. I still have no trouble killing pyros that try to air-blast my rockets away. But good backburner pyros give me a lot of trouble, even when I’m being healed. It’s hard to get used to the Pyro, which before the patch was a somewhat underpowered mix of speed and power good for ambushing, becoming a weird semi-heavy with the ability to kill entire teams in seconds. Without an uber. I can see what Valve was trying to fix (ruin) - the Pyro is definitely a serious class now. But come on, Valve, +50 health? Suggested change: Remove the Backburner’s health bonus and slap on a +50 ammunition bonus.
Sleep-deprived rant out of the way, I haven’t actually played TF2 in about a week. Maybe the falloff damage fix brought the Pyro down to being a regular class instead of the Heavy’s unstoppable pyromaniac brother.
22 O'Smiles // Jul 1, 2008 at 10:12 pm
Wow, what a fucking whiner I am. Hey, look! Heavy update next! I like playing Heavy, but soon I’ll probably like playing Sniper more.
23 Lack_26 // Jul 2, 2008 at 12:16 am
Wow, I love this entry. It really sums up a lot of my sentiments about people whining about updates, I personally want the pyro-fever to die down so I can get to roasting people on my own, but I’ve loved every minute of the update pack.
24 Dante // Jul 2, 2008 at 12:19 am
I used to play as a Pyro before the update and, trust me, they needed improving.
The main problem was their inability to finish people, the soldier in particular was the bane of my existence, when you came face to face with one in an enclosed space you’d think the odds were on your side, but the inevitable result would be you setting him on fire and him jumping up and rocketing you to death instantly. This meant that, most of the time, you only killed people posthumously. Unless they made it to a medic, or someone else shot them before they expired.
The Pyro was an immensely frustrating class because he was essentially a kamikaze option, and even skilled players couldn’t really offset that by much. Much like the engineer becomes frustrating once people start blowing your stuff up every few seconds, regardless of how well you’re doing.
Give it time I say. The adjustments have taken care of the Pyro’s two biggest problems, the soldier’s rockets and his inability to crit (he does his damage too slowly to build up much of a crit the regular way) but not both at once. And yes, there is a lot of point to using the air blast instead of the backburner, because indirect fire has come to dominate a lot of TF2 matches, and the Pyro is the only real defence against it. It doesn’t just beef him up, it rebalances the whole game, toning down indirect fire, much to everyone’s belief. Personally if you don’t see the air blast as worth it and go backburner all the time, I think you’re letting your team down, because although the backburner is the way to go on the offence, on the defence the air blast is far more valuable, allowing you to protect other players and sentries, and disrupt attackers.
And one last thing, before posting ‘OMG Pyro sucks I keep getting burned!’ or somesuch, isn’t it worth thinking for a second about the numbers? More people are playing Pyro right now that ever before, of course you’re getting burned to death a lot, something would be very wrong if you weren’t.
25 Suraj // Jul 2, 2008 at 6:44 am
To me each update is an incentive to play more TF2. Develop strategies to counter new gameplay modes. I would have been bored off TF2 months ago if Medic pack hadn’t come along.
Each update brings out new challenges (e.g. reduced ammo clips) and urges me to alter my playstyle, consider new strategies and get fun out of TF2.
So I have no qualms about new updates. Sure when they are released, there is a huge outcry but how many ppl do you see using Kritzkrig effectively?
26 sQUEAKYfOAMpEANUT // Jul 2, 2008 at 1:21 pm
Nicely put, Dante.
I remember when the Kritzkrieg came out. There was all kinds of bitching about sentries being rendered useless and unstoppable killing machines, and the biggest gripe of all: the simultaneous Uber and Kritz.
So far, I’ve seen one UberKritz. In a picture. On this website.
Ooh, I’m shakin’.
27 Joe Glenn // Jul 3, 2008 at 5:59 am
The big problem with the pyro right now is the backburner, or maybe its the air blast thats simply way too hard and situational to use properly. Quite simply put, trying to reflect rockets/pipes instead of dodging them is way too risky most of the time and pushing around people is simply dumb… youre a pyro why would you want to push people away from you? The very rare situations where that might be useful are too far and few in between to make it worthwhile.
So theres our problem ; there’s simply no real drawback to using the backburner! The fact that it’s ridiculously strong and actually gives(!) you 50HP is what puts it over the top. If anything, the tradeoff of the backburner should be -50HP to compenstae for the immense burst damage power. They got the flare gun and the axtinguisher right at least. Flare gun is a good example of a tradeoff that actually works. You lose your midrange firepower but you gain mid-longrange firepower. The axtinguisher can make the axe situationally useful. The backburner is basically a free 50HP and tremendous power for no tradeoff. Thats just bad design.
The best example I can provide is probably from my own experience. As I started grinding the first 16 achievements I was doing decent as a pyro. Not great, but allright. As soon as I got the backburner my effectiveness skyrocketed. Where before I would sneak on an unsuspecting group and kill one, maybe two people before getting mowed down now I could rip through them like nothing and even have enough HP to get away safely! Isnt it weird how I became a great pyro all of a sudden? To have such a difference in effectiveness simply by switching a weapon is a strong indication that said weapon simply isnt well balanced. I really hope the backburner gets some kind of nerf. Something along the lines of say a 25-30% back crit rate, but you get 60HP instead of 50HP would be just fine.
28 CHARMANDER THE GREAT // Jul 10, 2008 at 2:07 pm
As a veteran pyro i must admit I was owning face before the pack. But now that my update has came i am like zeus+1,000,000 cans of red bull. I put on rock music fill up on butane and start burning as if i were osama bin laden and my only source of food intake was a can of beans and a fire pit.
I am overpowered. Myself without a medic is enough to stop plenty of flammable opponents. But what i find gives me the greatest pleasure out of the 3 new weapons is the axtinguisher. It used to be burn hold duck weave jump side strafe to take down a single heavy. Now it is much simpler. Light that big mac on fire fast switch to axe and two hits and watch as his corpse goes completely limp.
If i flank your team your best bet is to yell on the mic and warn your team that they left the gas stove on high and i have a molotov cocktail.
29 ddddd // Jul 10, 2008 at 6:15 pm
the only real problem I see with updates is EVERYONE switching to the updated class. Then I feel kind of bad for playing it, even though I used to play pyro all the time. It was the same thing with Medic. You’d have 20 medics and 1 heavy and the other team would have 20 medics and 1 heavy and then stupidity ensues. Also, if there’s any class that is underpowered it’s the scout. I fuckin’ love the scout, but it takes 5 hits to kill, like, anyone.
30 CHARMANDER THE GREAT // Jul 11, 2008 at 1:29 pm
The only people complaining about pyros being overpowered are players that are used to playing against a class that was weak and easy to overcome. Period.
31 Smokebudz // Jul 16, 2008 at 9:59 pm
Why people think the backburner is better than the air burst is beyond me I guess they suck so bad at dodging that 50 hp is required. Fact is air burst > backburner. I guess I have to let you know why since noone seems to know. Pyro rushing is now a VERY viable option (especially on blue) air burst stickies away and some spam at the door with a med healing u. The air burst can also be used in conjuction with the new axe in devastating fashion. Set them on fire juggle them with air burst so they cant run, pull the axe chop GG. Setup an ambush use air burst to detach heavies from their medics while uber’d (done it several times). Any map with a ledge or drop off choke point becomes a pyro dreamland wanna cap that middle point in badlands or warpath? Air burst the enemies off. You don’t have to kill everyone like people think, its highly valuable in alot of situations where your primary goal is defense (defending sentries from stickies anyone?). 2fort knock people into the water if they r rushing cross the bridge uber’d. Dustbowl stage 1 if a pyro gets on the 2nd cap its over you CANT get on the point they can burst you away and hide along the side untouchable, stage 2 you can do the same but your not quite as covered. Being primarily a demo the air burst makes alot of trouble most people know where a demo is gonna camp with stickies i’ve had pyros pop up and blast my stickies back at me forcing to retreat numerous times already ofc i’ve killed alot more pyros than have made me retreat the fact is air burst is a really unique addition. You can use a good position around a corner and the air burst together to completely keep an uber from moving into your base if your skilled also. So before people start thinking the backburner is high and mighty any smart pyro who knows how to teamplay and use the recent updates correctly (and can dodge) should favor the air burst anyday.
On a side note i’ve seen barely any additional challenge killing pyro’s hell I stab them as a spy, bottle them as a demo, saw them as a medic, and bat them with a scout more than they kill me on average people just need better tactics and awareness.
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