85 responses so far ↓

• 1 Punjabi Fury // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:24 am

  I have to say the unlocks are starting to get me down. I’d like Valve to make some changes that don’t involve crits for once, and a melee weapon that isn’t just a bloody messy buffed version of the original.

• 2 Pixi // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:30 am

  Ya, come up with something new instead of invulnerability or crit.
  Why not something NEW?

• 3 Trid3nt // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:31 am

  it would be nice to see some weapons which approach combat in a different way than before. Not sure what exactly, but it would freshen things up

• 4 Punjabi Fury // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:35 am

  My favourite thing from all the updates so far has been the air blast because it does just that.

• 5 Sortie // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:35 am

  Haha truly, I had a similar idea yesterday, but this guy really wrote it down, it’s the best idea ever. Even if it won’t work correctly in-game, it’ll be super fun to try. :D

  Tags: Can comments have tags? If so, am I doing it right? Heavypunch! Faster Heavypunch! You are dead.

• 6 superlordbasil // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:38 am

  Me thinks that the first suggestion could be made more interesting if instead the bullet/rocket/explosive bounces off the heavy not damging him of course making it more fun and mean the pyro is not the only class thats gonn fire your own weapon back at you

• 7 J3553 // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:49 am

  I still want his fist taunt to do some damage.

• 8 Awesome // Jul 3, 2008 at 9:40 am

  I think he should get a gun that shots fists. They should explode and do massive damage, but he only gets 2 and after that he becomes invulnerable for a little while as he runs around with no hands and then dies.

• 9 Pixi // Jul 3, 2008 at 9:54 am

  I think that you should be invulnerable constantly when you have any weapon equiped, and when shooting, you will crit only.

• 10 Jonah // Jul 3, 2008 at 10:12 am

  And to balance that out you can walk through walls.

• 11 J3553 // Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 am

  Don’t forget that everyone has only 1 HP. And no weapons.

• 12 Matt // Jul 3, 2008 at 10:50 am

  Jonah, that’s the final unlock for the spy!

• 13 Alexander // Jul 3, 2008 at 11:47 am

  And while we’re in the nieghborhood, run twice ad fast as a scout.

• 14 Pentadact // Jul 3, 2008 at 11:56 am

  Hey, thanks for the mention. I had a quick round or two as Heavy before publishing that post, to see how often I thought “Man, I wish I had that thing I just suggested.” And yes, almost as often as I needed it for running away, I wanted it for a brief dash to a particularly annoying enemy to biff him on the nose. STAY STILL TINY MAN.

  I had another idea for how this whole thing could work, actually - I’ll update the post in a bit. The end result is the same, but the concept might make a bit more sense and have yet another expensive-to-impliment comedy ability.

  J3553 - just between you, me, and the internet, you might be in luck there.

• 15 fishface60 // Jul 3, 2008 at 12:29 pm

  For the spy unlocks he should get a cloak which doesn’t run out when not moving, but when moving you aren’t completely invisible. So spies need to find a good spot and stay still.

• 16 Chijts // Jul 3, 2008 at 12:43 pm

  Has anyone else found them playing Heavy a whole lot more since the announcement?

• 17 J3553 // Jul 3, 2008 at 12:52 pm

  @Pentadact:

  Um… Everyone else has only 1 HP and no weapons?

  Or….. THE 7TH COMMENT!!!
  *SUSPENSE TYPE MUSIC!!!*

• 18 AlphaHawk // Jul 3, 2008 at 2:15 pm

  @J3553- You want his fists taunt to do damage? Ahahaha, that’s almost as funny as the pyro’s hadouken taunt. It would be so much harder too :D

  I like penta’s old idea of the minigun that sucks up fallen guns for ammo.

• 19 Trid3nt // Jul 3, 2008 at 3:00 pm

  Would be funny if it sucked in rockets and demo’s bombs, which could either work as ammo, or throw a spanner in the works… As should the engi’s spa-*is killed by half the population of the internet*

• 20 IQpierce // Jul 3, 2008 at 3:16 pm

  I think that the alternate minigun should suck up dropped fallen guns like Penta suggested, but it should give the Heavy health.

  I elaborated on this idea on my blog. (Where I also proposed that the new melee weapon be two pieces of bread, which the Heavy could use to restore his health by making sandwiches from enemy players, and from both friendly and enemy corpses, and devouring them. I think that one’s a real winner.)

• 21 Pentadact // Jul 3, 2008 at 4:54 pm

  Heh, I’d love to see you explain the sandwich weapon to the Valve animation cabal.

  Your Vacuum Minigun is good for a lot of reasons. But I think I’d be asking myself “Why are these guns healing me?” Perhaps enemies killed with it could automatically drop a medicine bottle, and it’s this the gun sucks in.

  I’m also super-protective of the Medic’s exclusive right to heal, despite rarely playing the class myself.

• 22 Shane // Jul 3, 2008 at 5:44 pm

  I had two ideas for the Heavy. The first one is an extra feature for his regular minigun akin to the Pyro’s air-blast. Basically as you rev up your minigun a little meter will fill up akin to the Medic’s ubercharge meter. You don’t have to actually fire to get this thing to charge, you just have to hold alt-fire to charge it up, though firing will work too. When it’s charged up, activating it will focus your rounds to a straight line instead of keeping such a wide spread. This will basically give the Heavy much more accuracy at medium and long ranges for a short period of time, which will let him deal with Snipers and Soldiers and Demomen and fleeing Scouts. It wouldn’t add to the damage or anything and wouldn’t otherwise change the minigun in any way.

  The second idea I had was for an alt-minigun, called the Rail Gun. This would basically be the minigun, but it would do significantly less damage. Maybe half damage or a third less damage or something. This would be the drawback to the gun. The big time benefit is that each bullet would have a powerful kick to it, akin to the Sentry Gun’s. So basically every time you hit somebody, they’re going to get pushed back quite a ways. If you’re able to hit them enough you’d be able to slow the advance of multiple enemies at once.

  This would be especially useful on maps like goldrush, but it would really be useful on any maps. On point-capture maps it could be used to hurl opponents off of the capture points. It could also be used to slow enemies down in maps like 2Fort. There are really a whole lot of uses for it.

  The downside to the gun is that, because of the lowered damage the heavy is going to get a lot less kills and a lot more assists, making him even more of a support class.

• 23 Chris // Jul 3, 2008 at 5:47 pm

  Upon hearing about the new heavy unlock, I’ve had one recurring idea in my head.

  This weapon would be called the Berlin Wall (or something akin to it). It is literally just a giant slab of concrete, and would act like the shield from old school counter strike. The heavy would have almost no view whatsoever whilst using it. It would keep the heavy’s role as a tank, and keep a usage for the medic. And to have some sort of point incentive for him, there would be two weapon-esque features he could use. One is the ram, where he just shoves the guy in front of him (like a pyroblast) and the other has a sort of uber meter; the more hits he takes, the more it charges up, then he screams “YOU MAKE ME MAD” (in that oh so loveable heavy voice) and charges forth, steamrolling all in his path. This weapon, while making him pretty much invincible to careless snipers or sentries, would be a new incentive for spies scouts and pyros to help defend an engineer’s weaponry or other fortification. I think itd give a whole new set of strenghts and weaknesses which would keep his role as worst nightmare for some, easy pickings for others.

• 24 LaZodiac // Jul 3, 2008 at 6:26 pm

  Shane, your idea is another of the many good ideas I’ve read.

  Its a shame the only things I can think of for the Heavy is a big bear claw shaped mit to go on his fist to increase the range of his melee attacks, but rarely crits, unless the hit would kill them anyway. If the hit kills them, it crits only to send the corpse flying away. The attack animation would be a swipe.

• 25 J3553 // Jul 3, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  @LaZodiac: Are you saying he would be strong, like bear?

• 26 jordan // Jul 3, 2008 at 6:28 pm

  brain cells have tuirned to sheep swill.

• 27 LaZodiac // Jul 3, 2008 at 6:44 pm

  Oh yes indeed J3553, Heavy is MUCH strong like bear!

• 28 S-Guy // Jul 3, 2008 at 7:42 pm

  I really like the shield idea.
  Aww…I had an idea about an hour ago, and then i went and ate dinner, and now it’s completely gone. X_X
  Knowing me, Ill probably remember it about 30 minutes after the pack is released.

• 29 S-Guy // Jul 3, 2008 at 7:45 pm

  Hold on, just remembered it.
  I was thinking maybe have a really spacey/retro looking minigun, and have it shoot energy bullets. The energy bullets could recharge over time, but they do less damage. Another little feature i was thinking about for it would be the bullets could also travel through people but with a decreased fire rate.

• 30 LaZodiac // Jul 3, 2008 at 7:57 pm

  Thats a nifty idea S Guy. If the cone of fire was less wide with that weapon, it might make the Heavy usefull without Medic. After all, useing cover he could fight acuratly and not worry about ammo.

• 31 rammingspeed42 // Jul 3, 2008 at 8:54 pm

  The idea of a faster, more stronger heavy is quite appealing, I’m still interested in a minigun with explosive bullets. But that is more in the realm of reality, and not really the style of TF2. Maybe a gun the size of Sasha that chugs out radiation? That would be pretty hawt. Of course, it would be damaging to the heavy for prolonged periods of time, so a HUD geiger counter would show you if you were at risk. If you are, back off for a while until the rad levels go down and continue firing. The medic would not be able to make the levels go down, though, because he would be able to use it all the time.

• 32 himmelstoss // Jul 3, 2008 at 9:48 pm

  Here’s an alternate way to make the bandolier thing work. Once he drops the weapons, he not only runs like a demoman, he also gets a 100% crit chance with his fists. As a tradeoff: when the heavy has his stuff, his fists attack slowly/more weakly/no crit chance.

  About the weapon recovery thing though: there are 3 options.
  1. Heavy can recover weapons by picking up any ammo
  2. Heavy needs to pick up a dropped minigun (doesn’t need to be his, it could be a dead enemy’s)
  3. As a corollary to option 2: Heavy must recover Sasha within N seconds or he needs to pick up a dropped minigun.

• 33 himmelstoss // Jul 3, 2008 at 10:01 pm

  As for the other weapons. The one constraint for other weapons is that it CANNOT give the heavy more base health like the backburner did. That’s why the backburner is a much more attractive option than the regular FT. To maintain balance, you really don’t want to do this. Similarly, this is why riot shields, etc. don’t work well. The heavy already has a lot of health, making it more resistant to damage is way overkill.

  Think of a minigun which does damage over time (a la flamethrower). However, it has an overheat, so you can’t fire it for more than N seconds.

  Just like the pyro, the heavy needs a long range device. So the shotgun replacement I have in mind is like a soldier’s rocket launcher, except single-shot and weaker.

• 34 Shawn Poulsen // Jul 4, 2008 at 2:54 am

  I’m a little disapointed that everyone’s suggestions are for alternative miniguns - I’d very much like to see the heavy get a completely different style of weapon.

  So, a suggestion: A laser cannon. No ammo, but instead a heat meter - Firing the laser canon shoots out a thin beam in a straight line, filling the heat meter at a fairly constant rate. Firing causes no slowdown. The beam comes on instantly, but takes a second or two to ramp up to full damage. At full power, DPS is a little lower than the minigun. So, while in theory you could pop off short bursts of it without a spinup time, it’s more effective to keep it running constantly. When the heat meter fulls up, the gun can no longer be fired. Firing constantly would completely full the meter in roughly the same amount of time the minigun would take to fire 100 or so rounds. The heat meter empties reasonably rapidly, but only starts to empty if you go several seconds without firing it at all.

  This alternate weapon helps the heavy with mobility, allowing maximum speed at all times, and allowing firing with no lead time, both factors hopefully allowing a heavy to survive longer without medic assistance. The overall drop in prolonged firing time, and in DPS makes the laser cannon less attractive for situations where you have a medic on you and want to, say, knock down some sentries. Awareness and prediction remain required skills, in that heat management requires you to assess when the combat is going to end, or when there might be lulls that you can stop firing for long enough to shed some heat. Aiming becomes more of as issue than with the minigun if you’re attempting to use it at long ranges, but the continuous beam nature makes just waving it around fairly effective.

• 35 Ixtab // Jul 4, 2008 at 7:36 am

  I want to see the shield, it’d really emphasise team play as a guy with a shield is no good with out weaponed people to shield and the other team would have to flank him to get him. Increased teamwork on both teams. Plus I want to see a wall of shield-heavies advancing slowly and then they part letting pyros poar forth.

  I also think the idea that most fits with the criteria, although not as fun as dropping all your weapons to charge/flee, is the one where he does more damage on lower health. The only issue is how easy it is to tell that’s what’s happening, it’d be like the mystery of the medigun healing ramp or the crits or respawn times that a lot of people just don’t understand unless they read it somewhere outside the game itself.

• 36 SlowShootinPete // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:12 am

  What if the new minigun was a “liberated” sentry turret? I can’t think of any reason for this other than that it would look funny. Perhaps the advantage could be that if you pair up with an engineer he can reload your ammo by smacking you with his spanner, or something.

• 37 Chijts // Jul 4, 2008 at 11:20 am

  I have an idea for an achievement:

  If it Bleeds, we can Kill it: Kill 5 Cloaked Spies

• 38 Shane // Jul 4, 2008 at 1:42 pm

  I don’t think alt-miniguns that aren’t miniguns is a good idea. You still want the profile to be instantly recognizable and having too much variation in weapons could hurt that a little. But more than that, you want to stick with the same weapons so that that when you think of a weapon, you’ll automatically think of that class.

  I’m also not really a huge fan of these speed burst ideas. I understand why people might want them, but Heavies are already very powerful and feared by pretty much everyone. Giving them a speed increase, even a burst of speed, would dramatically alter that class in a way that isn’t necessarily for the better in terms of balance. The whole idea behind the Heavy is that you don’t want to go toe-to-toe with one unless you’re very clever or you have backup or you’re at a safe distance. If the Heavy can suddenly close that distance very quickly, or retreat really fast or dodge out of the way or whatever you take all of those downsides away from him, which I think would make him a *lot* more powerful. Too powerful, really.

  Now mind you, these idea of giving him a burst of speed at the expense of dropping all his weaponry or only getting it when he has his shotgun out or whatever would mitigate these strengths a bit, but honestly a burst of speed that only enables the Heavy to close the distance so he can try and punch you, or quickly retreat isn’t exactly something that’s especially beneficial to the Heavy, except in rare occurrences. I think whatever he gets it should be more versatile and capable of being frequently used, like the Pyro’s airgun, which not only can deflect rockets but can also hurl opponents away.

• 39 Sam // Jul 4, 2008 at 1:50 pm

  Inconvienced Refuges!

  new forum: http://z4.invisionfree.com/Unconcerned/index.php?act=idx

  I think Pwnser put it offline.

• 40 Super Jesus // Jul 4, 2008 at 2:10 pm

  Actually, for an alt- mini, I was thinking of a chaingun. Long, thick near heavy body, and maybe a bit pointy?

  100 rounds. More accurate. No windup time. Slower RoF. Like, 1 round every 10 mini rounds. Longer to get into fire position. Like, 1 second longer than the minigun.

• 41 Pentadact // Jul 4, 2008 at 2:29 pm

  Shane - the Bandolier isn’t supposed to be for running in and punching, though that’s certainly an entertaining subversion of it if the circumstances arise, or you’re slightly crazy (coughChriscough). It’s for rapidly retreating a short distance to grab some health every time you get into trouble: which is pretty frequently if you’re pulling your weight.

• 42 SyrusRayne // Jul 4, 2008 at 2:42 pm

  That’d be a load of fun. I can see it now. Heavies from either color rushing towards each-other, medics in tow, the sound of gunfire and taunting filling the air…

• 43 LaZodiac // Jul 4, 2008 at 6:09 pm

  On an achievment based note, Chijts Predator Refrence is highly likily from Valve, and incredibly hilarious.

• 44 AlphaHawk // Jul 4, 2008 at 6:18 pm

  You know I bet Meet the Medic will be the next video. Valve finally gave a background explanation to him (The trading cards) and when you think heavy, you think medic.

  Not to mention I think valve will give the scout a nailgun when his update comes, and the spy his old tranq gun. I mean, they’ve already got the models, all they would have to do is skin it and stuff.

• 45 thezeus18 // Jul 4, 2008 at 6:49 pm

  Roller-skates.

  Roller-skates that allow him to travel quickly, but not to stop quickly. In effect, I would recommend turning him into a vehicle with momentum. Medics won’t be able to keep up with him at full speed, so this doesn’t stack with the medic. It makes him more effective without the medic because he can escape from battle more quickly. There is also the basic novelty of the different mode of movement, with the player having to keep track of speeding up and speeding down, so that he doesn’t fly right past the point into the group of defending enemies. It would be easy to use, but hard to master, increasing the necessity of knowing just when to pull out of the battle; you’re more likely to survive if you have enough time for your skates to accelerate. Also, if the heavy hits a wall or solid object at a certain speed, he will suffer damage akin to that received in a fall from height. The downside of the skates would be the skill required in maneuvering with them, and that the minigun recoil would propel the heavy backwards, so that he cannot effectively fire the minigun unless he is against a wall. However, this recoil could be used to the heavy’s advantage, as if he fires the minigun while retreating, he could go very fast.

• 46 Shane // Jul 4, 2008 at 8:06 pm

  Pentadact — I know what you’re saying about the purpose of being able to drop all your weapons for a speed burst, but I don’t see the point in creating an alt-weapon or some kind of special ability who’s inherent purpose is to help you *retreat.* I mean, it’s kind of the Heavy’s purpose to make other people retreat. If this ability were to meet its purpose then suddenly the dynamic changes as all the Heavies begin to run away rather than take their stands and hope for backup to arrive.

  Some people have weapons or special abilities that can be used for defensive or offensive purposes, such as the Scout’s speed and double jump, but the bandoleer idea, aside from the very occasional times where you’d use the burst of speed to hurl punches at your enemies, which as you pointed out other than for comedy’s sake you’d have to be crazy to do with any frequency, its only purpose is to give you the ability to escape back to your spawn point.

  I’m not saying it’s the worst idea I’ve ever heard or anything, and I can see how it’d be useful; but I also think that it’d dramatically change the dynamic of the Heavy. I mean, his biggest defect, and arguably one of his only ones (aside from long-ranged weaponry) is his lack of speed. To take that one defect away from him, even in certain situations I think goes against the core of his balance. It’d be like giving the Sniper a shotgun to make him more useful at short-range. All of these classes *intentionally* have defects that work to their balance. I just don’t think any of those things should be touched.

• 47 thezeus18 // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:14 pm

  In other words, you think roller-skates are a much better idea.

• 48 Grigoriy // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:15 pm

  Haha, zeus, I’m trying to imagine someone getting really damn good with those things, and just cruising as a fast Russian wrecking ball. One that doesn’t break, and isn’t made out of surplus tank parts, anyway.

• 49 thezeus18 // Jul 4, 2008 at 9:28 pm

  Yeah, it would rock if it did damage when you hit people.

• 50 J3553 // Jul 4, 2008 at 10:36 pm

  @thezeus18: Imagine the death icon thing in the corner.

  Attacker *Rollerskate’d* Defender

• 51 thezeus18 // Jul 4, 2008 at 11:27 pm

  SkateRoll’d

  Hahahaha. Man.

  They need to implement this.

• 52 Nophysicalbody // Jul 5, 2008 at 1:11 am

  Rollerskating slightly faster than a medic… medics are only slightly slower than scouts. So the most powerful class damage wise becomes one of the fastest too…?

  I actually have a better idea, how about we just go all the way, give the heavy a highly accurate rifle that as well as making him run 300% faster, turns sv_cheats on on the server - but only for him.

  It’d be so great to see noclipping heavies flying out of a wall, and punching some random engy.

  “haha, POW!”

• 53 Pentadact // Jul 5, 2008 at 1:24 am

  Shane - good Heavies don’t just stand there taking damage until they die. They try to judge the moment at which they need to retreat a little and heal up before they go back in. Having a faster way to do that encourages you to take a stand for longer, not the opposite.

  I agree that the primary class weaknesses are sacred and shouldn’t be removed by the unlocks. But they can be toyed with: the first Pyro unlock is a highly accurate long-range weapon. And it’s okay, because it doesn’t make him a powerful long-range enemy. This unlock doesn’t create a Heavy who’s fast: for the duration that he has the moderate speed, he’s nobody, he might as well be the VIP.

  thezeus: Rollerskates get my vote, so long as the kick-back from firing the minigun is so fast that it becomes the best way to travel. I want to see Heavies zipping backwards between the two forts, guns blazing, screaming “GRAHAHAHAAA!”

• 54 Chijts // Jul 5, 2008 at 8:56 am

  Ah ty Zodiac, glad you got the reference.

• 55 thezeus18 // Jul 5, 2008 at 5:22 pm

  Yeah, I think that’d be hilarious, the combination of that minigun recoil and hitting solid objects at high speeds doing damage, you’d have all these heavies zooming around backwards into walls.

  It’d be awesome. I mean, awesome awesome awesome. God, I’m going to do that myself if they don’t do it.

• 56 mr. Brit // Jul 5, 2008 at 6:11 pm

  rollerskates don’t really fit with the Russian heavy, perhaps for the scout though. He goes faster, say 150% not 133%, but loses the double jump ability. I like the idea but it isn’t right for the character.
  What if the heavy could grab onto his allies when using his fists. He gets dragged along behind before letting go and attacking. Obviously there’d be some slow so perhaps jumping dislodges him. Could make for some funny scout dragging a heavy moments :D

• 57 thezeus18 // Jul 5, 2008 at 7:49 pm

  mr. Brit: Well, no, I think that’s the point, that it doesn’t fit with the heavy. It’s juxtaposition, the contrast of the great big heavy on top of his favorite tiny little skates is definitely humorous, and Valve has deliberately made humor a key part of both the game itself and its marketing. Also, as shown in the shorts, the scout thinks he’s a tough guy, whereas the heavy is just a big baby inside, who we could easily imagine strapping on little funny wheelie shoes.

  Moreover, I think that if you give the roller-skates to the scout, then you lose two fun things about the idea: firing the minigun to propel yourself, and hurting yourself and others with your momentum. Nobody will be intuitively scared of a scout coming towards them on skates, because all other classes are more massive than the scout.

  Nophysicalbody: No, you see, while the Heavy can go fast on his skates, he CAN’T STOP OR TURN EFFECTIVELY. I mean, think of the energy of a 300 pound Heavy, and think about the corridors of 2fort. He can’t go medic fast through them, he’ll run into a wall and die. It’s the same with pretty much any map, he’ll either run into a wall, or run into a bunch of enemies. If you add a 5-second long animation of him picking himself up off the ground every time he hits something solid at over a certain velocity, this will not overpower the heavy.

  Just, think of the Heavy as a train. Trains, like a Heavy on roller-skates, can hardly turn or stop; and though a train might go as fast as a motorcycle, they’re definitely not as maneuverable as motorcycles, are they? I mean, most TF2 maps are like motocross tracks in terms of the maneuverability required. Can you imagine people claiming that train has an unfair advantage at a motocross rally? I think not.

  Seriously, I mean, I see your point. If all you did was give Heavies the speed of a Medic, that would definitely unbalance gameplay. But if you add factors like momentum, damage, and getting up from a fall, then this idea could be done right. I mean, if it’s really, really overpowered in play-testing, you could make it so that if the Heavy banks too hard, he falls over and has to get up. There’s a million ways that this could be nerfed if necessary.

  Anyway, I think it would be fun, unique, and visceral, more so than any tweaked minigun with +50 to something could be.

• 58 thezeus18 // Jul 5, 2008 at 7:50 pm

  Oh, though, I like your idea too mr. Brit.

• 59 Ninja // Jul 5, 2008 at 10:17 pm

  I personally, belive, however, that Valve will change the heavy’s main weapon. He is, afterall, the heavy weapons guy. Not the minigun guy.

  My idea would kinda change the idea of the heavy altogether.

  Okay, the new “minigun” is a…

  Well, I’m going to try to keep from saying laser, so I’ll say it’s a “heat ray”.

  It is about the same size as the minigun, but instead of shooting out rounds, it shoots out a rather thick heat ray, (slightly thicker then the cursor for the current minigun). By holding the alt-fire button, he charges this heat ray up, much like the minigun. In order to use the “heat ray” he has to charge it for a couple seconds ( a bit longer then the minigun’s barrel spinning delay”. When firing, he cannot move, and when charging, he is reduced to a speed similar to that of the normal firing minigun speed. Now, how does this make him more viable without a medic?

  Well, while charging, the gun produces a lot of heat. This is the heavy’s main way of countering one of his biggest weakness, spies. When charging (not firing) the gun produces a little heat aura around the heavy, that hurts anything that touches him. (DOESN’T INGITE KTHNX) When firing this effect is removed.

  Ammo wise, I was originally thinking it could have twice the ammo, but now I’m leaning towards it having 3/4 the ammo of the original minigun, or even the standard. Possibly as a counter to this, (by looking on the post above mine) if you charge/ fire too long without stopping, the gun could overheat, either causing damage to the heavy, destroying the gun, or just making him pause for a moment, and having to recharge.

  This kinda prevents ubercharges from being any use. For one, he can’t move when firing. Between that and the charge up, using a regular uber on him would be useless, as the combination of the two would take up most of the uber’s time. Krits just wouldn’t work, as the gun doesn’t crit. When charging, the medics medi-gun does not work, at all. Can’t heal him or buff him. I guess the whole heat aura thing’s drawback?

  This would, I belive, make the heavy less powerful with a medic, but capable of taking out lots of people incoming towards him. It counters one of his biggest weakness, and the ability to sweep with the heat ray would make taking down medics and scouts much easier, especially when they are running away (the range of the gun is unlimited, giving him some counter to a sniper, though the sniper should be able to snipe a heavy before he could accomplish this.)

  So in a nutshell, it’s still the same idea of a minigun, but plays a bit different.

  More damage, more/less ammo, no movement, more accurate, wider range of firing. At first it seems overpowered, but I think the ubercharge’s uselessness with it could be a good counter, and the fact that a medic cannot heal him while he’s charging (which he would be doing a lot) both do exactly what Valve wants it to do. It also gives him two counters to his biggest weakness while using this weapon, which makes him much better without a medic. The heavy could walk around without a medic, firing around without need of a medic, doing more damage, but if he gets low in health, he can still go to a medic to get more, making the medic still usable out of combat. It also makes the pyro slightly better at taking down the heavy, as the heavy cannot counter the pyro with a medic, because as soon as he charges to fire, the medic cannot heal him, giving the pyro time to kill the heavy before the medic.

  For the shotgun, I say the idea of a riot shield sounds good, but really, it’s hard to tell what exactly they will do. Riot shield being a shield that covers the front, including the head, to help the heavy travel past areas where a sniper can see him, at the cost of any ability to fire. It could also absorb SOME sentry fire, making it possible for him to distract a sentry while a demoman takes it down.

  For the fist, the whole no critting but each hit sending the enemies a good distance away (slightly more then the compression blast) sounds like it’s balanced, and fun.

  I realize the whole “heat ray” idea isn’t very accurate to the timeline of the game, but then again, a magical healing ray isn’t much less sci-fi.

  Also, there are some holes in it, it may be a bit unbalenced, but it was worth a try.

  (The ammo seems to be the biggest hole in the weapon, so I might revise it so it carries less ammo, but does 75% more damage)

  Decided to post this idea here since nobody responded to it at the forums. Possilbly because it’s too long, possibly because it sucks.

• 60 Ninja // Jul 5, 2008 at 10:30 pm

  Thought I’d add the critera examination thing <-<

  It shouldn’t have a cumulative effect when being healed by a Medic as well. Heavy/Medic pairs do pretty well as it is-

  Well, when charging, the heavy cannot be healed, and adding in the possibility of overheating, the heavy would have to be charging rather often.

  It shouldn’t significantly change the Heavy’s role, relative to other classes. In particular, it shouldn’t significantly encroach on another class’s role.-

  He’s still basically the same guy. Powerful all around attacker, but very slow. Now he’s getting a bit more range, and more accuracy at long range, but he’s not going to be replacing snipers or pyros.

  It should be understandable for both the user and the player it’s being used on.-

  It’s not really that much more complicated then the minigun, mainly a fancier looking minigun if you’d so choose to belive.

  How much work is it? How many new models, sounds, effects, etc?- Biggest problem <-< New gun needed, new sound effects, tons of animations, amoung other things.

  Does it deepen the Heavy’s skill curve? Is it easy to learn? Hard to master?-

  Adds a bit more aim to the heavy, while taking away luck. The minigun is kinda random as to where exactly the bullets are hitting. Whereas the heat ray would hit almost exactly where you aim it.

  Is it an interesting tool to choose relative to the base Heavy weapon it’s replacing? What scenarios can you envision in which each is useful? What arguments can you raise for why each is better than the other?-

  Well, the original minigun is more for medic+heavy combos, and is easily better for the heavy planning on moving around. Some could say that the heat ray is more defense considering the lack of movement.

  How often does the Heavy need to think about it? Is it something he uses once every 5 minutes, or is it something he needs to be constantly thinking about? A greater impact on player decision making is generally a good thing-

  Well, he’d be thinking about it all of the time, really. With the overheat, you’d be thinking while charging, and obviously while shooting.

  Being in the right place before he starts firing, because he has little ability to move while firing-

  Fits that perfectly. That’s the biggest flaw that I see with many of the new weapons. A lot of people have an enhanced movement while firing. Valve themselves said they didn’t want that.

  Good anticipation of enemy behavior, for both the above point and because his minigun needs to be spun up before firing.-

  Still needs spun up, and requires some anticipation of enemy behaivor. Moreso then the original minigun.

  The ability to estimate the amount of damage he’s taking. It takes time for the minigun to spin down, so he needs to be able to know when it’s time to retreat several seconds before his health has run out-

  It’s going to make them retreat a bit earlier, since they are going to be taking some significant damage and while charging cannot be healed. Since they CAN be healed, however, it still works.

  The ability to keep firing at a target while still keeping an eye out for other dangers, in particular Snipers & Spies.

  Well, it doesn’t take much aim, but aim can certainly help. It also helps counter spies and snipers to an extent.

• 61 Chijts // Jul 6, 2008 at 4:42 am

  Whoa you’ve been thinking about this alot eh. I think the idea wasn’t to impede Heavy & Medic relations (lol) with the new upgrades. It’s true, the Heavy doesn’t have to be a minigun man, but I’m not sure if a giant laser is in keeping with the art style too, but it’s thinking on the right track… perhaps there is some sort of equivalent.

  I was thinking rail gun might work as it could be slow to fire and not a constant stream of death but again, that’s not really TF2.

• 62 JOE MAMA (LOL) // Jul 6, 2008 at 5:08 am

  I think the heavy should be allowed to eat the corpses of players that have died for extra health.

  “EET TASTES LIYK CHEEKIN”

• 63 Inquisitor Saturn // Jul 6, 2008 at 7:23 am

  I would like to see the following:

  General heavy upgrade: The Heavy has more crits when he gets lower in health. Between 0-25 HP, half of all his bullets are crits.

  Main weapon alternative: Super beam cannon. This fires a wide cone of pure energy at the enemy. Has about 15 shots.

  Shotgun replacement: Flak gun. A heavy-duty shotgun. Similar to the pyro’s flaregun, but fires a huge blast of buckshot. Slow to reload.

  Fists replacement(lol): Magnetic Knuckledusters. By holding down the right mouse button, the heavy can create a forcefield that nullifies half of all shots that come his way. In addition, pushback effects are halved. The catch: no crits.

• 64 Ninja // Jul 6, 2008 at 8:32 am

  Actually, the idea IS to impede heavy medic relations <-<’

  That’s the entire point of the update, to make the heavy more powerful without a medic.

  The railgun idea sounds good, if they could find a way to make it decent without making it amazingly powerful without a medic.

  I tried a bunch of different weapon ideas, and I couldn’t find anything minigun like that fit the criteria. The only thing I could think of was a minigun that does about 75% of the damage of the original minigun, and when he goes above 100% health, does about 50%. At 50% health it does 150% normal damage (compared to the original minigun) and at 25% health it does double the damage.

• 65 Mr brit // Jul 6, 2008 at 11:59 am

  Ninja, that’s a pretty good idea! It makes a medic combo less effective and makes the heavy much more capeable of surviving firefights. As further balance the gun should lower the crit chance and the crits should not scale with the damage. It leads to tactical choice as to when to pull out and offers a decent reason not to stay mediced up. However the medic may not realise he is impeding the heavy’s damage so some sort of visual clue would help…

• 66 Chijts // Jul 6, 2008 at 2:48 pm

  Ninja, in the official post it doesn’t say anything about stopping Heavy/Medic combos, or making them less desirable. Just when he is not with a medic to be able to solo more efficiently, and to not make them ANYMORE powerful when they team up.

  I believe with your idea of not allowing the medic to heal the Heavy when using the gun makes for a reduction in their teamwork.

  You can make the Heavy more powerful alone without it causing a problem when they pair with the medic.

• 67 Sam // Jul 6, 2008 at 8:19 pm

  I think for the final unlock you should have the ability to be shrunk down to a tiny size, you do much less damage but are obviously a smaller target.

  And obviously the heavy should GRAAAHAAAA in a freakishly high and squeaky voice

• 68 thezeus18 // Jul 6, 2008 at 11:35 pm

  Ok, somebody explain to me why everybody likes the idea of laser beams (generic) and riot shields (have we forgotten CS 1.6 already?), but think that Rollerskates are stupid? This is literally the biggest class in TF2, and you want his upgrade to be basically a minigun with a different model? It just doesn’t make sense to me.

  THINK BIG. THINK ROLLERSKATES.

• 69 FraktuRe // Jul 7, 2008 at 4:18 am

  Lasers are stupid, and don’t fit.

  Rollerskates would be a great idea. Have them replace the fists. When the Heavy equips the skates He’s just holding them, tied together left clicking can do a nun-chuk style melee attack. Right clicking puts them on, then he switches to Minigun for movement. If done right, it could work really well. You lose the ability to hit people when wearing the skates, but you can run into them at speed for the same effect.

  The shotgun should be changed dramatically. Shotguns are the most generic weapon in the game. The heavy should be able to build himself a bunker, for full protection except for a ring for the minigun to fire from, and a ring for him to see from. He gains protection from most fire and gains more ammo, but can’t be healed, is still flamable and still easily headshotted. It costs all his ammo to build, but it slowly regenerates once built. When the heavy dies, or the bunker takes too much damage it explodes, leaving a chunk of splash damage. Engineers could repair it if needed. For comedic effect, an engineer could build also level one SG on it :P

  As for the minigun, I think it should either remain relatively the same, or be a different weapon completely.

  Using the Radiation gun Idea that someone had, the heavy fires radiation which can only be stopped by a medic. But not by the medigun, but by the Needlegun. The medic has to stop healing his teammates to fire needles at infected teammates to stop radiation. This works the same way for the heavy using the gun. The heavy can’t be healed while using it: He has to be needled which only stops him getting radiated, but not healed so he still takes damage as if he had the normal minigun and no medic. Thus he doesn’t get overpowered, but a medic is still damn useful.

  I think the Needlegun shooting anti-radiation needles works well: After all they don’t do much damage so they’re not filled with poison, but if you have too many you’re done for: overdose! So the concept fits well. TF2 is also set in the 50’s/60’s era when Nuclear experimentation was common.

  I think all three of these a great ideas, but probably best to only use one, else the game is changed too much.

  I probably didn’t explain them very well.. but they work in my head!

• 70 FraktuRe // Jul 7, 2008 at 4:23 am

  Aditional addition: When in his bunker the heavy can crouch to hide his head from snipers but loses the ability to fire while crouched and can still take hits through the firing ring.

  or something

• 71 FraktuRe // Jul 7, 2008 at 4:28 am

  More thoughts: When in the bunker the heavy is always spun up. He could right click to destroy the bunker when overwhelmed, which does a little damage to surrounding enemies, but more importantly blows them away ala pyro air blast. A well placed bunker could keep enemies at bay until the very last second, but is still very vunerable to snipers and demomen.

  Comedy option: Other heavies could rip open the bunker with rollerskate impacts.

• 72 Gothic // Jul 7, 2008 at 7:19 am

  I propose that we have an unlockable minigun that can fire radioactive bullets. Sort of like the radiation gun above, but more grounded in realism. When it hits an enemy, the enemy will start to glow green. He will take constant damage over time (sort of like the flamethrower, but the damage will not stop until he dies) but he cannot be healed by jumping into water. Only the supply closet or a medic can heal him. Of course, the weapon will not fire crits. Heavy crits are madness.

  For comic effect, the heavy can shout “YOU GLOW GREEN!”

• 73 HughesDePayenz // Jul 7, 2008 at 8:22 am

  http://machinima.com/film/view&id=27000
  Dude someone took the frohman name and used it in a machinima, it’s kinda funny.

• 74 thezeus18 // Jul 7, 2008 at 11:22 am

  Thanks for taking me seriously, FraKture.

  I earnestly think that Roller-skates would be the best possible HWG update Valve could make. I wish more people would give this idea serious thought.

• 75 Lack_26 // Jul 7, 2008 at 1:26 pm

  Yeah, I love the roller-skates idea, but they could perhaps need a aesthetic change to be in keeping with the art. Also when used I would love the heavy to shout ‘I AM ROCKET MAN!’

• 76 Mr brit // Jul 7, 2008 at 1:38 pm

  I don’t hink the problem is so much with the idea of the skates which is great. I think it’s more the idea of the heavy in a pair of plastic rollerskates that would be better off on a girl aged 5. I’d be much more on board if there was some serious change to the presentation. Alos I like the idea of using them as a weapon with primary and alt. putting them on…

• 77 Mr brit // Jul 7, 2008 at 1:40 pm

  “NOW WHO IS SPEEDMAN!”

  “I AM COMING FOR YOU!”

  “YOU ARE SLOW BABIES!”

  “I WILL EAT YOU!”

  “IS LIKE I AM SPEED OF LIGHT!”

  “TRY RUNNING NOW BABY!”

• 78 thezeus18 // Jul 7, 2008 at 3:32 pm

  Well, I thought that the plastic rollerskates part was humorous and a necessary part of the presentation. You know, big tough heavy on tiny little rollerskates. You could have it so that when he’s trying to slow down or stop he flails his arms. It’d be hilarious. Like a big kid who never tried it before.

  “WEEEEEEEEEEE- OOF!”

• 79 LaZodiac // Jul 7, 2008 at 4:12 pm

  To the Rollerskates I give a resounding yes.

• 80 FraktuRe // Jul 7, 2008 at 8:16 pm

  the rollerskates idea must be spread!

  we need mockups and stuff!

  or something

• 81 Gothic // Jul 8, 2008 at 7:20 am

  “RUN LITTLE MAN.”

• 82 thezeus18 // Jul 8, 2008 at 3:55 pm

  http://i36.tinypic.com/34pf0gz.jpg

  First mock-up completed.

  Hellz yeah!

• 83 FraktuRe // Jul 10, 2008 at 3:00 am

  The skates must be smaller!

• 84 Fred // Jul 10, 2008 at 12:22 pm

  I was just in a game of Goldrush where the team suddenly went ” Let’s heavy rush!” and so we did and we dominated! So much that we decided to go easy on the reds by changing to fists.

  If only we had that awesome fast moving punching heavy! :D

  Anyways, we still won the first map. We only got halfway on the other map because we had too few heavies that time.. :(

• 85 thezeus18 // Jul 10, 2008 at 2:06 pm

  Now, imagine ramming the other team WITH YOUR BIG BELLY.

  WHILE ON ROLLERSKATES. http://i36.tinypic.com/34pf0gz.jpg

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