The Payload gamemode seen in Goldrush is a variation on the old escort mode from the TFC days called “The Hunted” or “V.I.P.”.
One player would be the VIP, sort of a wimpy, wealthy looking dude with an umbrella, and his team (made up of heavies and soldiers and, I think, medics) would try to escort him safely through the map to an escape point while the other team (snipers only, I think) would try to take him down and end the round. I think those were the only classes who could play — I don’t even recall demos or pyros on those Hunted maps, but maybe I’m wrong — it’s been years.
It’s hard to imagine Hunted mode working in TF2. There are some very good players out there who are extremely hard to kill, but with everyone on the other team gunning for the same person, it’s hard to imagine someone making it from one end of the map to the other without dying, no matter how good his teammates were.
Another problem with the old Hunted was that the VIP was chosen at random and, often, whoever wound up playing it was a doofus who ran out and got killed or just didn’t cooperate, ruining the match for everyone (one of the many reasons Valve went with a mindless — though charming — bomb on a cart for Payload). Plus, it wasn’t a huge amount of fun being the VIP; it was exciting enough, running scared, but other than hiding behind people and ducking behind cover, there wasn’t much to do besides rely on teammates.
And, of course, it just wouldn’t be TF2 without all the classes playing, not just soldiers and snipers. With all of these things in mind, the VIP would need some beefing up and the VIP’s bodyguards would need a few favors right off the bat for this to even work.
1) Set-Up Time
For the offense, though, instead of the defense. While the VIP would have to wait in the spawn, the rest of the team could scamper ahead to set up sentries, get into hiding for some backstabbin’, or stickymine sniper ledges.
2) Checkpoints
Just like in Payload, getting the veep to a checkpoint could open new avenues to the bodyguards and close some to the assassins. It could push the assassin’s spawn point further back, or bump up the bodyguards. And, so there’s not massive camping around the path to the checkpoints, like you see in Goldrush, there would be multiple check points to choose from. So, instead of just going from A to B to C, you could go from A to B1 to C1, or A to B2 to C1, or A to B3 to C2, etc.
Reaching a checkpoint would also refill the veep’s health and recharge his gadgets. Yeah, he’ll have gadgets (see below).
I think a single exit is still required, though, because you have to throw the assassins a bone and give the engies a chance to work.
3) Spies on the VIP’s team could disguise themselves as the VIP. That’d be awesome fun. So you could have decoy parties defending the fake veep while the real veep snuck around another way. Or you could have a dozen fake veeps (and one real veep) all run for the goal and hope the real one gets through.
The VIP would need some customization as well. In the TFC version, he had low health and was armed only with an umbrella that he could hit people with. He’d definitely need a health upgrade and a few other tweaks to make it even remotely possible to get him across the map.
1) Bullet-proof bowler hat
I don’t care who you are or how fast you run or how invisible you get, you probably get headshot at least once a round. Even untalented snipers get lucky, and I should know. With everyone on one team looking to kill the same person on the other, the snipers, with their one-shot kills, are going to be out in droves. That’s why the VIP needs a bullet-proof bowler hat.
Don’t get me wrong, the veep can still get headshot, but not while his bowler hat is on. Snipers, however, can knock the hat off with a full-power headshot, and the veep will have to scurry back to retrieve it (or risk continuing without it).
2) Bullet-proof umbrella
The umbrella isn’t just for melee anymore — right-click and it foomps open, providing a shield he can crouch behind. This slows the veep’s movement drastically but gives him some protection against incoming fire.
3) EMP Grenades The perfect way to reintroduce grenades back into TF2– give ‘em to the VIP. He could chuck these to explode clusters of stickies, knock sentries out of commission (maybe just temporarily), or explode an enemy’s ammo suppy, dealing them damage and forcing them to resupply.
Maybe the grenade can even disrupt ubers? Ubers (and Kritzkriegs) are probably the real problem when it comes to Hunted mode, because nothing is gonna stop an ubered Pyro from killing his chosen target or a Kritz’d-out soldier from blowing someone up. So, maybe the EMP blast could knock out the medigun.
Gadgets!
Now, I don’t want to turn the veep into Superman or make him that hard to take down. The point of the game mode is, he should be weak without protection. But, it might be nice for the veep to have some other gadgets to make him more fun to play and give him a fighting chance out in the open.
Clearly, he can’t be sporting all of the gadgets at once, so he’d have a loadout screen at the start of the match where he could choose a gadgets to use during the game. Most of these are weaker versions of weapons and skills already in the game.
1) Self-healer, or even self-uber-er, perhaps slower to heal than the medigun and uber only lasting five seconds.
2) A cloaking device he can use, once, in a pinch. Maybe it can only be recharged at a checkpoint.
3) Spy-detector. Backstabs are gonna be a big issue, so maybe a gizmo that beeps when a disguised spy is near without actually pinpointing who it is.
4) A fireproof suit. He’d take direct pyro damage but not stay on fire, like the pyro’s own suit.
5) Mini-sentry. He could toss this level 1 sentry down but not repair or rebuild it until he reaches a checkpoint. It could slow down enemies while he hides and waits for new bodyguards to arrive.
6) Decoy - a hologram of him that runs in one direction while he runs in another. Lasts 10 seconds or so.
7) Spring-loaded shoes. Is this getting dumb yet? Yeah. Anyway, he could do the equivalent to a rocket jump, allowing him to travel some alternate routes or leap to safety.
And so on.
The other thing to consider is just having the veep have a set number of respawns. That way, if he’s taken down, the round isn’t over and everyone can keep playing. And, if he had a limited number of lives it would make that last life ever so precious.
Anyway, just some ideas I decided to jot down instead of doing my job. Someone go out and do all the work to make it all happen okplzthx.
EDIT: Commenters below brought up a point I had planned to get back to: the initial problem Valve saw of the stranger playing the VIP being a retard and ruining the match. I can see this still being a problem on some public servers, but a lot has changed since the TFC days.
With Steam we also have our Friends List, and I think more and more people are regularly playing with groups of people they know and enjoy the company of, and who can be called on to not act like idiots (unless everyone is in the mood to act like idiots, which is just fine).
Everyone has their favorite servers where they’re likely to find a good match and like-minded people to play with. Sure, there are still mic-spammers and griefers, and that will never change, but for the most part, players play with the friends or at least in locations where they know they’ll find a good match.
Also, with these hypothetical changes to the veep, maybe more people would enjoy playing him and he wouldn’t have to be randomly assigned unless there were no volunteers.
35 responses so far ↓
1 Mythos // May 6, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Haha, it’s interesting to read that just after playing Goldrush.
2 Koth // May 6, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Sounds like great fun if Valve actually made that. I don’t like the idea of the Rocket Jump Shoes though. Everything else seems fair though.
3 Trid3nt // May 6, 2008 at 2:21 pm
It would be interesting to
a) Have him used as a spawnpoint for a random dead defender.
b) For your respawn idea, maybe have him respawn at the closest teleport to the objective
c) Be able to instantly tele to the nearest tele exit
I could go on, but I’ve got a headache. I’ma go for an asprin
4 n00bie51 // May 6, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Interesting read, I was thinking about ol’ VIP. You had some pretty goodi deas there.
5 Punjabi Fury // May 6, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Sounds alright… would need a lot of balances and tweaks o’course.
Also, theres a term I’ve seen flying around the Steam forums recently: Cruber (crit-uber)
From now on all Kritzkrieg Ubers are crubers, and can be distinguished from the normal uber as such.
I have decreed it! Mwhaha!
6 TheJBurger // May 6, 2008 at 2:51 pm
Great ideas, and an interesting read. I totally love the SPY/disguised as VIP idea. That sounds like it would be soo much fun.
One concern I have though: It sounds like you’re putting a lot of responsibility on the VIP’s skills by giving him so many abilities (even if you limit his gadgets to only 1 or 2). I mean, in most other online games, the VIP is basically useless and depends on his teammates. That’s why everyone and anyone can play him. At the point where you require the VIP to have a certain level of skill may end up being the point where that team will fail every round.
7 Enedok // May 6, 2008 at 3:05 pm
But how do we stop the VIP to act like a tard? If someone is out just to screw up the team its pretty much nothing you can do.
It could boil down to the ones who are the VIP are the ones with the most points. The more points you have, the bigger the chance to become VIP.
8 Shane // May 6, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Yeah, I’d pull all the gadgets and stuff from him, but I like the idea of the umbrella. Have it be an absolute shield that, as long as he has it deployed, will protect him completely from all enemy fire on something like a 150 degree field. Deploying the umbrella like this would mean his movement speed would be reduced drastically (like, Heavy with mini-gun running slow), and standing up his legs would still be exposed. Crouching he’d have 100% protection from whatever side he’s facing, but then he’s basically incapable of moving at anything beyond a slow crawl.
He’d still be able to rotate and stuff, though, which means if one guy is trying to strafe around him, he’d be able to spin to continue to block the hits.
Doing it this way basically means that if you have a guy skilled with the umbrella, he could potentially hold off a single attacker fairly permanently, but two attackers could flank him and easily dispose of him that way. Plus Demoman and Soldier would be able to shoot directly behind him and hit him with splash damage that way.
Also, make the umbrella a melee weapon that insta-kills on contact, which means if he’s got his umbrella up and you think you’re just gonna walk up to him real close and get around his shield, think again. The downside to this would be that switching between melee attack umbrella and shield-mode umbrella would take a second or two, so you wouldn’t be able to attack and then throw your shield back up before anyone else could get a hit off on you.
Finally, make the VIP immune to all critical hits. This means, essentially, that no lucky shot nor a medic kritzkrieging someone is gonna take the guy out. The flip side to this is that the VIP is incapable of being ubered, as well as incapable of being healed by medics. He can still be healed by medkits, but that’s it.
By making him immune to critical hits though, it means that when a doctor activates kritz ubers, instead of going directly after the target, they’d be going after all the guys surrounding the VIP, to basically strand the VIP from his friends.
9 friccish // May 6, 2008 at 3:20 pm
Yeah, I don’t think you solved the problem that Valve has with the gametype which is idiots being chosen as the veep. No matter what you gadgets and abilities you give the veep, it would still be frustrating as hell to try and defend one that has no idea what they heck they are doing, or just plain sucks. Too much reliability on one person’s performance.
10 sortie // May 6, 2008 at 3:23 pm
And so, the VIP mode returned to TF… Hey it actually sounds quite funny, but it’d probably be some custom mod in order to work, or some clever server-script?
11 chris12 // May 6, 2008 at 3:36 pm
you have graet ideas. and im not telling that because you are the one who made concerned. i say this because.. err you ideas are cool?
YEA
12 Christopher // May 6, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Oh yeah, forgot I was going to address the “retarded VIP” issue. Went back and edited it onto the end.
13 Ojive // May 6, 2008 at 3:39 pm
That actually sounds rather awesome. If only Valve would actually, you know, BRING NEW CONTENT TO THE 360. Seriously, isn’t it about time they threw console gamers a bone and gave us something PC gamers take for granted?
14 Also named Christopher // May 6, 2008 at 3:51 pm
I’ve come up with a couple possible solutions to the “retarded VIP” issue which could be used individually or in conjunction with each other:
-The VIP be selected from the third best scoring players last round (as in top 4 for a 12 player team, top 3 for 9 players, etc.)
-Players have an option to opt out of being VIP
-The team can choose to pick a different VIP during setup time if they don’t like the current one
-The server owner can choose whether the VIP is chosen by vote or by random.
15 friccish // May 6, 2008 at 4:01 pm
What if the VIP’s ping skyrockets right in the middle of a heated match, and he’s jumping all over the place? Or, worse yet, what if he up and disappears (disconnects) on you?
I agree that it could be fun with the right people, I just think that on the average pub, you may or may not get a good experience with this. And that seems like what valve is most worried about.
16 friccish // May 6, 2008 at 4:05 pm
Nevermind, I just realized what I said there about Valve caring about the pub experience.
(painfully recalls medi-swarm, grinding madness since achievement update, and shudders uncontrolably)
17 crazyD // May 6, 2008 at 4:10 pm
Sounds kinda ridiculous to me. I think you are overestimating the power of snipers. Dealing with a pack of heavies, soldiers, and medics can be rough, especially if you get caught in close range.
I think the classic The Hunted mode is fine, and I think your version adds too much unnecessary complexity. I would love to see a classic The Hunted added into TF2, but don’t think I would play your version regularly.
18 Flamingo // May 6, 2008 at 4:37 pm
What would happen if the VIP dies?
19 Inspiration // May 6, 2008 at 5:08 pm
Wow, I really agreed with you until you started with the bowler hat. Hunted was so fun to play because you needed your team to survive. Now with all medics and decent HW/Soldier cover AND fake spies running around luring people away is more than enough to ensure a good team to keep their VIP alive. The umbrella should not be altered also, seriously… besides that the shield idea is pretty unrealistic for a VIP (if he can have a superelite umbrella, why not better body armour or something _normal_?) It would also be pretty useless. TF2 action is never directed from one side at a time and taking splash damage into account it is completely useless.
A more important point is that crits should be removed from this game at all, otherwise any lucky soldier (or any class with a gun for that matter) be able to take the VIP out with ‘a lucky’.
Now I think of it, why not bring it back with meds/hw/soldiers as bodyguard and snipers only as offence. It worked on TFC and might work here. Grenades were already out of the Hunted gamemode anyway and ubers could be disabled also. Although I do like the addition of the spies!
Hope they bring back this gamemode though, it needs far less work than you mentioned.
20 Inspiration // May 6, 2008 at 5:12 pm
@Flamingo
If the assassins killed the VIP (or if the VIP left the game or switched team), the assassins team would get 25 points. If the VIP made it to the extraction point, both the VIP team (team of 1) and the Bodyguard team would get 100 points.
This 4:1 ratio was pretty good iirc, it was usually harder to get to the extraction than to kill the VIP.
21 LuFa // May 6, 2008 at 5:53 pm
People could be nominated and voted to play the veep, who would have the opportunity to opt out of nominations after a set number of plays :D
22 Lemonpieman // May 6, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Nice job will all these ideas! I wasn’t around in the TFC days so i never played the mode, sounds interesting though. Also giving the VIP gadgets sounds great, although maybe the spy could get some of those for his achievements.
23 Tiler // May 6, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Just have the VIP decided by a vote. Easy enough.
All this talk about classes reminds me that I actually came up with some stupid ideas for classes. A stereotypical Italian gangster with a Thompson submachine gun. A fast moving Samurai armed only with a katana and a blinding camera (Japanese tourists, lawl.). And a ‘professional’ navy seal that speaks only in internet slang and acronyms (playing on your average CS player and whatnot) with an M4 and/or riot shield and pistol.
Sterotypes are fun!
24 Grigoriy // May 6, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Tiler: Give the SEAL reduced accuracy during movement, slower speed, but a bunnyhop that increases speed gradually and it’d be perfect. Also, all of his voices show up as text in chat. Everything. Even ‘need a dispenser here’. For both teams. Even their incessant calls for medics, or pleas for dispensers and calls of “GO RIGHT” will fit them in a niche as a communications saboteur.
I think the VIP team would really be investing in Pyros. In reality, how much attention will people be paying attention to the beep, and how quickly can they respond? As a ‘career’ spy player, I can say that there really isn’t going to be anything that can stop me from nabbing the VIP if I know where he is. And since that’s an instant round-over, I don’t even need an escape plan, I can just turn to the revolver and kill people during humiliation.
In other words, more versatile spies more than anything else have effectively killed the VIP mode. Why? Because we can cloak, a luxury not had in TFC. Decoy VIP spies might be a hurdle, but they’d sacrifice too much protection/firepower and eventually you’ll nab your man unless the team protects all the VIP’s, which has its own slew of problems.
25 Lack_26 // May 6, 2008 at 11:26 pm
It would be awesome, but I wouldn’t play on pub. servers.
26 Seraph // May 7, 2008 at 12:09 am
Am I the only one who imagined the VIP as looking like The Penguin? (The Batman villain, not the flightless waterfowl)
27 roBurky // May 7, 2008 at 1:59 am
I think regarding VIP abilities, this is how I would do it:
Immune to critical hits, including sniper headshots and spy backstabs.
The armored umbrella idea is a good one.
Maybe a double-jump activated propellor in his umbrella, allowing him to follow soldiers, demos and scouts to higher places and alternative routes.
The potential for spy-related hilarity is awesome, though. Imagine a spy whose doesn’t kill anyone, but disguises himself as an enemy VIP and leads the bodyguards away from the real VIP.
28 poptya // May 7, 2008 at 2:16 am
You could make it so only players with a certain percentage of achievements complete could be VIP. So that only experienced players could do it.
29 n00bie51 // May 7, 2008 at 1:19 pm
How about a voting feature so players can vote on who gets to become the VIP?
Also, Ojive, this is not the place to discuss how Valve has little support for the console ports.
30 John Saflo // May 7, 2008 at 4:22 pm
When I read “The perfect way to reintroduce grenades back into TF2,” blood started violently spraying out of my eyes.
You’ll receive a doctor’s bill in the mail within the next 3-5 days. Good day.
31 zealot_guy // May 7, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Every one of those ideas are great. And nothing sounds silly. This is TF2. Everything in this game is silly.
32 Hurricaaane // May 8, 2008 at 3:37 am
One thing that’ll be good is to make the Engineer useful: I’ve always thought of something like Natural Selections: Locations in the map that only the Engineer can Repair, Hack, Use, etc, to open paths or lock doors for example.
33 mr. Brit // May 8, 2008 at 3:32 pm
I’m with Ojive, updates 4 consoles!!
In an effort to stay on topic, I think it all sounds good but I never played the original. Meet the V.I.P would be good!
34 Ryan // May 15, 2008 at 6:14 am
I disagree with almost everything you suggested.
Multiple people disguising as the hunted takes away the, “ooh! I found him!” moment that the snipers get.
All classes? Hell no! With the exception of spies on the sniper team, nothing else could really work for Hunted. Demomen make it too difficult for snipers to escape, snipers vs. snipers causes too much distraction, scouts are a definite no-no. In fact, the only class that would work for the defense are pyros.
Grenades and other gizmos for the hunted? You’re not really getting this. The point of the original Hunted was to protect the weak guy, who is equipped with just an umbrella. Yes, getting headshotted within 1 minute of play would re-start the map, but that’s a sign of a rubbish defense team and/or hunted.
Sentries wouldn’t work for either team. The whole objective is to avoid the snipers, who can kill you from any range. Imagine running through an entire map, only to stand around waiting for a numbnut soldier to try to blow up a sentry. It just leaves you open for too long a time.
I really don’t think there’s much needs modifying to the original Hunted gameplay, with the exception of spies on the sniper team, and perhaps limiting the snipers to just their sniper rifle and knife. Mind you, some servers banned the AR for snipers due to the fact that it killed the fun, so that could be down to the server, I guess.
The cure to any shitty VIPs is simply to vote to kick him from being the hunted. Problem solved.
35 Ceceil Felias // May 19, 2008 at 3:25 pm
@Inspiration:
Whining about lack of realism? In TF2?
Surely you must be joking.
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