TF2 Gameplay Stats

June 4th, 2008 · 30 Comments · TF2 News

I was checking out the stats on the Steam site, and noticed they’ve added player death maps for Badlands and Gold Rush.

Badlands isn’t terribly surprising: most of the kills take place on the centerpoint bridge and at the top of the spires, with a smattering at the chokepoints of the two buildings near the center and just inside the bases, plus a bit of a haze around those final, quickly-capped CPs.

The Gold Rush map is more interesting. Most matches I play on, if there are enough people on them, tend to not make it through the first stage. The defense generally loses the first cap and holds the second one, mainly due to massive sentry support. You can build in a number of places, most of them elevated, meaning it’s hard for soldiers to do splash damage and tough for heavies to get close enough to take down a guarded sentry. Demos can still be effective but they really need to be ubered or the rest of the defenders swarm them, making it hard to get enough stickies up to take down a sentry.

The game starts at the top right of the map, and you can see that deadly bend in the first stage where most of the action takes place and where the defense tends to shut down the attackers. You can tell just how few matches make it to the second and third stages, and this graph shows that 80% of games are won by the defenders. I’d assume Valve would prefer this to be balanced a bit better, so expect some changes to Gold Rush to make it a bit easier for the attacking team.

Gold Rush also probably explains why Engineer is currently the top played class. Medics, after the achievement pack, have moved up to third. Good for them. Scouts are now in last place, probably due to all the play on Gold Rush and Dustbowl, where Scouts are limited in their capacity due to all the sentries around.

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30 responses so far ↓

1 greeneggsnsam // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:11 am

It’s funny how red seem to have an advantage on some maps, when they’re perfectly symmetrical. Maybe the better players like red more?

Also interesting how the Heavy is played comparatively little, and yet he is the class that people recognise the game by.
2 subman // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:12 am

Valve acknowledged the Gold Rush issue at their recent press event about the state of PC gaming:

See http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/?p=1834
and scroll down to 14.55.
3 Ev // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:16 am

Greeneggsnsam, RED players are the defenders on maps like Goldrush and Dustbowl, where they usually win. No symmetry on those maps.
4 AlphaHawk // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:34 am

Not that much of a surprise, it’s like a once in a lifetime thing in TF2 to make it all the way through gold rush. Nice find tho.
5 Kalleo // Jun 4, 2008 at 11:37 am

@ Ev:
He was probably talking about ctf_well, hydro, 2fort, granary and badlands.
6 Punjabi Fury // Jun 4, 2008 at 12:06 pm

Can’t… comment…..

*cough*

Dying… from lack of funny tags……
7 Design // Jun 4, 2008 at 12:52 pm

I have a *very* weak theory as to why red might have a very slightly higher win ratio on all of the symmetrical maps: Perhaps when people are spamming either 3 (for blue) or 4 (for red) after a map change to get a spot on their team of choice they end up pressing an extra press or two before they’re sure they got into their team. The button they were spamming corresponds to 3 for a blu pyro and 4 for red demoman when that next menu to pick your class pops up. Because the round might be about to start they just stick with that class so they can get to the gate in time before it opens. After it opens they score a few points and maybe turn the tide of the battle before they swap to their class of choice the next time they die. Based on the average kills per hour and average points per hour in the stats, the demoman is ahead by just a small amount, so if anyone is going to turn the tide very slightly perhaps it’s the red demoman?
8 Christopher // Jun 4, 2008 at 12:56 pm

It used to be the opposite — BLU had more wins on symmetrical maps. I think it’s probably just random chance.
9 Design // Jun 4, 2008 at 1:02 pm

1 more stupid theory as to why red wins very slightly more often on symetrical maps: If you’re using WASD like 99.9% of all players then it’s easier to press 4 instead of 3 using your pointer finger. Perhaps the more hardcore (and therefore more skilled) players load fastest, since they’re more likely to have invested in a good PC, and therefore have the most choice for teams. Therefore they have more choice for teams, and pick the one easiest to press. Then once the more casual players finally load in on their slower PC’s they have a very slightly more restricted choice of teams, so they just pick whatever one is open which may be very slightly more likely to be blue. The game starts, and the hardcore player(s) is more likely to kill the casual player(s) and turn the tide ever so slightly.

OR: Maybe red blends in with a the beige dirt textures very slightly more than blue. So if you catch somebody just whizzing past the corner of your field of view it’s more likely you’d notice the contrast of blue against the sandy desert backgrounds of some maps, versus red against sandy beige, meaning red could sneak behind maybe 1% more often for players who might be slightly distracted?

Anybody else have any insane theories, no matter how vague and minor they are? :D
10 Sentry Gun // Jun 4, 2008 at 1:08 pm

Design: I highly doubt people are too lazy to choose a different class real quick.
11 mr. Brit // Jun 4, 2008 at 1:48 pm

you have a point punjabi fury, not since the days of rated medic unlocks have we had tags. Thus i propose we begin a petition for their return!

Also, I found a new skin for a female scout. I don’t have a link but google it and you should find it. I thought it worthy of a mention in your great blog but if not at least the word is spread by this comment!
12 JeCa // Jun 4, 2008 at 1:48 pm

Actually, in real-world matches in wrestling and similar 1-1 sports, red Does win a lot more often than would be suggested by their overall reputation and previous encounters, even though colours are randomly picked not very far from the actual match. Think it’s said to have something to do with red making the player feel more aggressive while the blue guy gets more nervous. Not sure if that’s the case in video games though, since you’re actually not afraid of losing in them.

Also, the first Time I checked those stats Scouts were at place 1. 1!. And now they’re last! Funny how people finally realized they don’t work very well as teamplayers, although I still love going with them on gravel when there’s some empty space and few enemies around cap B.
13 Doctorwho // Jun 4, 2008 at 2:10 pm

The problem with Goldrush is that while defense is important if red team has the intelligence of a monkey and knows how to play the game they will automatically most likely win. The closest I have ever seen the Blue team get to the last cap in the third area is about five feet away from the point. The only way to win is use medics to ubercharge your team so you can get the cart through the home strech
14 Dan // Jun 4, 2008 at 2:22 pm

Doctorwho: I was just playing on a red team that got bulldozed. I’ve seen a few wins on goldrush, just most games tend to be shot down before the second point.
15 Wossname // Jun 4, 2008 at 2:33 pm

I see more Goldrush BLU wins when they have an Engie making teleporters. No forward-moving spawn is a pretty huge hit for BLU and it’s no wonder why the cart can be 3ft away from the final cap and stay there for the rest of the game. People get impatient waiting for their team to catch up and try to go solo.

Also, mr. Brit, I hope that isn’t the cricket bat wielding female scout skin you’re talking about. She’s pretty much an overcomplicated anachronism that really only matches the art direction by virtue of her silhouette.
16 Wossname // Jun 4, 2008 at 2:40 pm

Also, Goldrush has already seen /some/ map tweaks in favor of the attackers. Off the top of my head, I can recall at least one doorway/path has been shutoff to RED, much to my annoyance as an ambushing Pyro.
17 The Linker // Jun 4, 2008 at 7:22 pm

Yeah, I was jsut about to mention that, Wossname. I thought that little tweak was BRILLIANT; just what the map needed. Mainly because the floor above that door is the best place to aim at most of the good sentry spots, as a demoman. Especially the one that’s around the corner of that big circular structure. Demos can totally wipe that spot clean with a few charge-shot stickies.

But back to what I was saying, that spot is now MUCH safer, since the defenders don’t have their own entrance into the area. They have to either rocket/sticky-jump up, or head around the side where, a), you’ve got attackers following the railroad that’ll meet up with you, and b), you’ll have to run right under the alcove area where attackers can drop down. On your head, if you’re not careful.

I haven’t actually done much play at all with the updated map; just enough to see that it was there. Kept smashing into the new wall. “What the– WHERE’S MA DOOR!?”
18 Gothic // Jun 4, 2008 at 7:34 pm

What, is a spy sappin’ his tags?
19 Wossname // Jun 4, 2008 at 10:38 pm

@The Linker - I agree, it’s amazing how much a small tweak can impact balance. And I *still* do the same thing as you, me hoping the door will somehow appear if I keep trying enough times.

But then, I’m also That Guy in the lobby who hits the elevator button more than once…
20 mr. Brit // Jun 4, 2008 at 10:50 pm

@ wossname, that is the one I meant but I think its pretty good. I know what you mean, a perfect match It ain’t but it is still good and the other classes were hinted at.

I cannot play goldrush cos I’m on a console, but I want to be sure I’ve got it right, with each round completed by Blu, they have no new spawn point. I.e. In dustbowl you always start at the first spawn??
21 Rico JB // Jun 5, 2008 at 1:59 am

WTF???
Did they raise some of the requirements.
It says hit 4 enemies with and uber on a Heavy I clearly remind it to be 2 enemies, also there was one to assist 20 kills on aheavy without any of you dying, now it says 30.
That is insane, I am stuck in those achievments {cause tehre is nobody worthy to uber, I am lucky if a soldier I uber kills to guys and does not get me kill, I will never get the 3 required.
22 Gothic // Jun 5, 2008 at 2:23 am

I’ve always preferred defense.
23 jordan // Jun 5, 2008 at 3:40 am

funny tags like ’snipering’ and ‘tags that are funny’
24 Inspiration // Jun 5, 2008 at 6:03 am

Playing in 2fort as RED actually has a benefit above playing BLU. The sniperdeck on BLU base has a flaw compared to RED base. The part of the sniperdeck that is nearest to their main spawn actually has some small line of sight beneath it so RED snipers can see where BLU snipers stand and when they will be in the line of sight. Not that this small bonus can change games in RED favour I guess.
25 Ayrton // Jun 5, 2008 at 8:01 am

I think that red win more because they’re PLAYED more.
In the “What’s your favourite team” thread on FacePunch the majority of players answered red.
I usually go blu because I think they look much better (they go with my room)
26 Wossname // Jun 5, 2008 at 9:33 am

@mr. Brit I work in design so, I’m a HUGE stickler for maintaining art direction; most genderbends fail in my eyes because they break nearly all the guidelines Valve talks about in their commentaries and whitepapers. That female Scout design is actually one of the few that manages to mostly follow the silhouette rule (good on the designer there), but she breaks color rules and has a /lot/ of unnecessary details.

I’ve only seen a few excellent genderbends so far (none of which have been brought to fruition as playable models, alas — I think they’d get more attention if they were 3D), the latest being a very well done female Heavy over on dA: http://alciha.deviantart.com/art/Heavy-Weapons-Girl-87684513

So anyway, pet peeve and I’ll shut up about it now. :)

And regarding GoldRush — yes, BLU’s spawn never changes and it’s a *long* walk back to the front. In games I’ve played, BLU has either steamrolled to the end, or has a very difficult time regaining their momentum should RED successfully defend a checkpoint. It is agonizing to spend most of the match with the cart a mere push or two away from a win.
27 mr. Brit // Jun 5, 2008 at 2:02 pm

ok I see what you meant. I thought your complaint was with the conversion from concept to skin and I agree, the tattoo etc. seems unecessary.

Also thanks for clearing that up about blu spawn. That seems like the thing to change if you ask. Although, do red have the same problem early on?
28 Wossname // Jun 5, 2008 at 7:37 pm

Yeah, the 3D modeler did a good job staying true to the source material. I just have an issue with that material. :)

In Goldrush, RED does have the spawn problem early on, but remember that they have the benefit of setup time. An Engineer can place some teleporters in safety to help mitigate things.

Plus, falling back to the spawn cap isn’t too desperate a measure. Who cares if BLU caps the first two checkpoints. RED only have to prevent the cart from reaching its final destination and they can do a pretty good job at that if BLU is splintered after the 2nd cap.
29 jesus // Jun 6, 2008 at 6:39 pm

anybody else see the fireaxe averaging damage distance at over 600 inches?
30 MarshallDog // Jun 15, 2008 at 11:15 am

I actually have been playing scout on Goldrush a lot more. Since a scout counts for two players while moving the cart, I can move it a pretty good distance before somebody kills me. I usually wind up with a kill to death ratio of 4/37, but I am almost always involved in capping points and do most of the moving. Plus I can get to the cart quickly as opposed to all those demomen, so the cart hardly moves backwards. And I am essential in reminding engineers where their teleportuhs and dispensuhs are needed.