94 responses so far ↓

• 1 [VGN] Chronos[Ha-G] // Oct 1, 2008 at 2:46 pm

  I remember seeing some of this a while back - interesting to see that it’s progressed.

  I could see the use in a few situations - mainly, any sort of practice/training, whether it’s just individual practice or a fielded team for a quick run-through of something for a clan. They can’t substitute the real thing (Except a sniper - they better make sure to scale back the aim of one), but they’ll have their use.

• 2 Jon Baker // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:03 pm

  I like the fact that if these are any good, it could potentially “force” team class balance in non-full servers. I can’t tell you the number of times I’ve had to switch to medic or engineer because my team had none (and I didn’t feel like losing)…

• 3 Inquisitor Saturn // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:11 pm

  Someday I want to see someone code bots that “watch” what successful players do and learn to mimic their tactics.

• 4 Pentadact // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:16 pm

  Juicy details and a steamy interview in the next issue of PC Gamer UK, actually.

• 5 Khaotic // Oct 1, 2008 at 3:16 pm

  I can see it now: the final point of dustbowl, 3 or 4 players on red, about 25 melee-only bots on blue. If they could implement squad tactics, that would actually be kinda fun.

• 6 Unconcerned Sam // Oct 1, 2008 at 4:22 pm

  Wow. I don’t want to be the guys creating that AI.
  That’s seriously complicated.

• 7 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:10 pm

  @Unconerned Sam:
  Seconded.

  Bots will be good if Valve ever makes some sort of training thing, because I agree with a post Chris had a long time ago: TF2 was complicated enough when it first came out, it took me forever to learn the classes, and I could draw on my experience from my TFC days.
  Noobs that come to play now aren’t going to have fun at all. A completely unique class-based system, critical hits will surprise them, they’re going to see people running around with weapons that they don’t have, and every once in a while for no damn reason they’ll win an achievement, and have no clue what the hell to do about it.

  This is one of the most complicated games to jump right into; this desperately needs a tutorial.

• 8 Altaco // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:47 pm

  I really hope that using bots on a server will create a custom tag for that server, I remember TFC and how hard it is now to find a server that’s not full of bots.

• 9 CannedLizard // Oct 1, 2008 at 5:49 pm

  That engineer is standing in front of his SG while working on it. I learned early on in my TF2ing that that is a BIG mistake.

• 10 Dwight K. Schrute // Oct 1, 2008 at 6:45 pm

  Hmm… interesting.

  This could be REALLY cool if Valve is “supporting” it.

  Can anyone say Hazard course??

  I might have a nerdgasm if Valve did this. I would also love them long time.

• 11 cheesemaster // Oct 1, 2008 at 6:54 pm

  I think this is fantastic. First of all because of the new players, learning, etc, but also for the simple fact that I live somewhere where good internet is almost impossible to come by, and if my sister decides to go on myspace or whatever, well, that’s my ping into the thousands on any server. Bots seem like a great way to get my tf2 fix when the internet’s being stupid.

  Also, I reckon it’d cut down on the need for achievement servers - just do it yourself with a bunch of bots instead of needing to spend ages trying to find an achievement server which doesn’t have a resident wanker who just kills everyone while they’re trying to get achievements.

• 12 Rovlad // Oct 1, 2008 at 7:20 pm

  I commented on how sucky they are at the first link in this post. So you people blabbering are better off playing Clear Sky (bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-HA! sorry).

• 13 Tiler // Oct 1, 2008 at 7:21 pm

  I’ve read and seen a few examples of ‘learning AI’, but it’s usually reserved for number crunching tasks like predicting the stock market and stuff.

  Usually it works by creating ‘mutations’ in the AI’s code, causing it occasionally to do random things. Most of the time, it’s nonsense, but some of the time, it’s successful, so it lives and ‘reproduces’ it’s code. The best case I’ve seen of this is where there were little dish robots with wheels that ‘ate’ by going into a certain kind of light, and ‘died’ if it went into the wrong kind of light. It also had the ability to flash lights and recognize flashing lights. Eventually, the robots not only learned how to communicate, but how to intentionally lie to one another (i.e. telling other robots that a bad light was good), and how to make a heroic sacrifice (i.e. stand in bad light, flashing a warning to all other bots that the light was bad). Cool stuff.

  It’d be interesting if the same principle could be applied to AI. Give it a few mutations and see what AI does best. It usually produces frighteningly good AI.

• 14 AlphaHawk // Oct 1, 2008 at 9:44 pm

  Seems nice, but they do, as you mentioned, have a lot of issues to iron out. I mean, will the bots be smart enough to defend the intel room (engies) and what about unlocks? Will the bots have the new weapons? Not to mention the “flow” of things as I see it, how will the bots react to certain hot spots of combat? Plus spies, will they flank the enemy to kill them, or flank them to capture points behind their backs? Or will they flank at all?

  Many questions indeed, but it would be pretty nice for the new players.

• 15 Justice // Oct 2, 2008 at 12:30 am

  As far as I’m concerned, bots are what killed TFC.

  Skynet, anyone?

• 16 go // Oct 2, 2008 at 1:03 am

  Where’s the fun in backstabbing a bot?
  Can one play mindgames with an AI?

  On the other hand: Luring snipers away into bot-filled servers could massively improve TF2 ;-)

• 17 Nonomu198 // Oct 2, 2008 at 1:32 am

  First robots take over our lives, and now TF2? I bet they are programmed for evil. And that means FACE STABBING!

• 18 Mobba // Oct 2, 2008 at 2:00 am

  -It will be nice to be able to add bots either on your own, or at a lan for a few friends to play against as something different.

  -I will avoid any online servers with bots like the plague. Bots killed dod servers, its never fun joining a server only to find its full of bots, even though it said 22/24 players on the server window.

• 19 Weegee101 // Oct 2, 2008 at 5:58 am

  Bots have honestly killed a bunch of online games, most especially Day of Defeat like Mobba said. I’m alright with bots as long as they can’t be used by server administrators to attract people to the server, meaning keep them out of online play. Limit them to LAN and Single Player games, and I think it’ll be alright.

• 20 VenomKing666 // Oct 2, 2008 at 7:24 am

  @Sam: It’s called Artificial Intelligence and it would be a clusterfuck of hell to program. I aint sure anybody could do it.

• 21 Dante // Oct 2, 2008 at 8:01 am

  I’m not sure how to comment on the twitter bits, so I’ll put it here:

  You’re taking the wrong approach with Mirror’s Edge Chris, it’s not really an FPS, it’s more like a first person version of the Prince of Persia games. The viewpoint makes the platforming difficulties much harder to balance, but results in a greater feeling of speed and vertigo. From what I played at the PCG showdown it looks like it could really work.

• 22 GothmogII // Oct 2, 2008 at 10:53 am

  Huh…I thought they already those? I remember being in the MedicBox map once, just me and one other guy, admin I thought, anyway, he was able to spawn in characters and make them do simple things, like attacking, building or capturing a point. Those are bots right? They certainly weren’t other players.

  However an official set would be pretty nice, I’d also like to be able to play offline at times too.

• 23 Alexander // Oct 2, 2008 at 12:55 pm

  Ah, I remember finding that video when searching for aimbotters getting pwned.

  @GothmogII, built in TF2 bots have no AI, the admin was probably just using “bot_mimic” or one of the millions of bot commands there are. These bots do stuff on their own.

• 24 Jerryboy1993 // Oct 2, 2008 at 1:31 pm

  Hopefully what happened with blizzard and the WoW bots doesn’t happen with this situation and Valve. Here’s the artical:

  http://pc.ign.com/articles/915/915660p1.html?RSSwhen2008-10-02_113200&RSSid=915660

• 25 Sinister Minister // Oct 2, 2008 at 1:47 pm

  @Jerryboy1993: Um…there’s a difference between making a bot to do the game for you, and a bot to play with you in a game. I hope you know that.

• 26 Kowl Slaw // Oct 2, 2008 at 3:46 pm

  hmm…bots. That would definitely help out new players.

• 27 Trenchfeeder // Oct 2, 2008 at 4:23 pm

  Where the hell are some DOD:S bots that fight, I been waiting for those for years

• 28 Teddi // Oct 2, 2008 at 4:40 pm

  @Cpt. Falcon:

  It would be nice to have a place to practice, but… I don’t agree that it’s a hard game to learn. I guess it helps to have friends who give you pointers, but you can learn all that by reading online. I’m a relative noob (just started playing first of Sep ‘08), I haven’t played this sort of game since Doom or Doom 2, and I’m a girl — and I say it takes a little work, but it’s not hard.

  I would say, however, that the nature of the game is social enough that if you don’t have friends to play with — or happen upon a friendly team a few times while you’re learning — it could be pretty discouraging. A few harsh comments or an extended session wandering around dying every time you finally find the enemy could really turn you off. Heh.

  As for me and my house, however, we love TF2 and consider it a noob-friendly game! ;-)

  As for the whole bots topic… sounds interesting, has its uses, but I’d hate to play against (or with) a bunch of bots. The social aspect is important to me. I tend to friend folks who are good in-game talkers (not chatty, but ones that know how to communicate essential stuff like strategy and when to uber and where the spy is and “thanks for saving my a–” and such).

  That sense of bonding with a team and achieving a goal together is my fav part of the game. So I’d rather learn while playing with a real team most of the time. Then again, I play medic 99% of the time. Could be different if I needed to learn special spy skillz or such.

• 29 Generic Username // Oct 2, 2008 at 5:33 pm

  I think it would be great for practice. I surely wouldn’t want to play against bots seriously, as that would get predictable and boring quickly, but I could really use some backstab training, to be honest. <_<

• 30 Dwight K. Schrute // Oct 2, 2008 at 7:12 pm

  I agree, bots in normal servers would blow, but I can seem the benefit and use in a single player tutorial level or LAN server.

• 31 sQUEAKYfOAMpEANUT // Oct 2, 2008 at 9:17 pm

  You mean I can’t get achievements through bots anymore?!

  *Gets on knees, shakes fists at sky* NOOOOOOO!

• 32 Bobic // Oct 2, 2008 at 10:33 pm

  There should be a TF2 campaign, with a level for every class i.e: the engie needs to hold back hordes of scouts, the spy needs to assasinate the heavy, the sniper needs to snipe a prime target, the heavy needs to mow down hordes of scouts, the scout needs to get the intelligence, and capture a control point, the demoman needs to set a trap for some people coming through, etcetra.

• 33 okidoki // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:18 am

  There’s not much combat in those videos. You can make them navigate the map and make engies build things, but behavior in a chaotic firefight is harder to program, I’m sure. I would like to see them make a scout dodge rockets and run around erraticly to frustrate a distant sniper. I’d like to see a pyro bot ambush a group of players and a bot that sees a route guarded by a sentry or a sticky trap and then retreat and take another route. If I see bots reacting to the enemies and using hive-minded teamwork then I will be impressed.

• 34 Dwight K. Schrute // Oct 3, 2008 at 6:16 am

  @32 - nice idea

  It could be like any other campaign, just have the next class target the last class.

  ie.) scout cap intel, engie setup sg to kill scout and/or hordes of scouts, demo destroy the sg, etc etc.

• 35 GothmogII // Oct 3, 2008 at 10:35 am

  @Alexander : So -that’s- what those were, thanks :)

• 36 NeoVid // Oct 3, 2008 at 11:55 am

  The Virtua Fighter method of making killer AI might work. Expert players supervise a CPU controlled character, and tell it when it does things right and wrong. This resulted in some AI opponents who were nearly as good as the top competetive players in the last VF… since they were made by the top competetive players.

• 37 Bobic // Oct 3, 2008 at 1:55 pm

  @34 oh yeah.

• 38 Bobic // Oct 3, 2008 at 2:07 pm

  There could be bots (slightly) like the hostages in CSS that would suck when they first came out, but with like 300,000 people playing, eventually well, um. Okay let me start again.
  Say theres 2 (REAL) people playing alone on 2fort (lol i almost typed 1fort). So the scout runs across the top of the bridge, and the sniper runs and hits him with a machete (or whatever his melee weapon is) and then runs back and shoots him with the SMG. The scout wins the encounter. This information is sent to the steam servers to be relayed around the world. The detection system works similarly to the speech bits that some characters say in certain scenarios. If the scout won , his general tactics (go close and fall back) and his and the snipers general location (middle area in the top floor of the base) are sent to the servers, so that bots react in different ways. If the scout wins with full health, the tactics and location is set in the Very hard level. If the scout wins with barely any health, its put in the Easy level. With all the players TF2 has, most scenarios would be used, although I do like the idea of mutations. It could go like this: in some supercomputer in steam HQ, battles are simulated billions of times. The computer only needs to calculate what the reactions are, not the graphics. After BILLIONS and BILLIONS of simulations, the most effective bots are put in hard, less effective less difficulty, and the computer does this around the clock. Eventually, the bots will become very advanced.

• 39 Lack_26 // Oct 3, 2008 at 2:09 pm

  @36, that’s a good idea, although I imagine it might be hard to program for a FPS like TF 2.

• 40 Bret // Oct 3, 2008 at 6:31 pm

  And the super advanced bots would, of course, rebel and force players to run mazes and puzzles with the promise of cake.

• 41 Bobic // Oct 3, 2008 at 7:09 pm

  Actually, if they were made to fight, they would eventually realize that the best chance of survival is to make peace. That would be strange.

• 42 Bobic // Oct 3, 2008 at 7:58 pm

  OMG. GENTLEMEN BEHOLD! (click on my name :P)

• 43 The Pants Were Dead // Oct 3, 2008 at 9:09 pm

  That takes the cake, don’t it?

• 44 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:07 am

  Bumping an old post AND off-topic, but I want to share this. (Click Name)
  I posted on the steam forums my idea for a sapper unlockable, and so far it’s gotten good reviews. I revised it a bit from feedback (read the * on the original post), and I think it’s good.

  Hopefully it’ll make it to Valve!!

• 45 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:09 am

  And in case you’re too lazy to click on my link (click my first post, not this one) I’ll give you the intro summary of it:

  “I’ve always had what i think is a good idea for a sapper.
  Top of the line technology: the KICK ME SIGN.
  Instead of sappers you now have a pad of sticky notes with “kick me” written on it. This unlockable is very different than the sapper because of what it does, and how it’s used…”

• 46 Bobic // Oct 4, 2008 at 9:52 am

  Wow, almost 50 posts. Probably because YOU HAVEN’T BLOGGED IN LIKE 3 DAYS OMG

• 47 Kowl Slaw // Oct 4, 2008 at 11:23 am

  Maybe he died THIS time…or aliens, slowly abducting the worlds most awesome people for their own entertainment…

• 48 Mr. Brit // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:04 pm

  ^^ Nah, I’m still here.

• 49 Bret // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:12 pm

  Case in point.

• 50 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm

  @Teddi: Girls playing videogames isn’t rare, just would like to get that out there. I have a friend who’s a girl who hands my ass to me in Halo 3 every time, but I don’t really like Halo anyway.
  I agree with you on bots, they aren’t fun to play with, and it does contradict the social aspect of the game.
  You’re a rare case, I guess you’re naturally good at picking up new things, but I still think that TF2 can be a hard game to jump into, and it would be cool if there was a tutorial level with bots just to learn the basics of each class.
  TF2 generally is a noob friendly game, however, especially if you have a nice team to play with. But the game is so intricate that you need to be introduced to a lot of things.
  You say you play medic a lot. How many times did it take people constantly yelling at you to heal them and telling you to uber to finally learn just what an ubercharge is, and it’s proper usage?

• 51 Bobic // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:24 pm

  Not you, chris livington. HE’S DEAD! OMG I CAN HAS HIS STEAM ACCOUNT

  I don’t blame you…

• 52 Bobic // Oct 4, 2008 at 12:26 pm

  I think less girls than guys play video games, but there are more than most people think :P

• 53 Kowl Slaw // Oct 4, 2008 at 2:20 pm

  Same here Cpt. Falcon…

• 54 Lack_26 // Oct 4, 2008 at 3:43 pm

  With a lot of games the male to female ratio is 3:2, which is a surprising amount. Now if you don’t mind their is a insect on my keyboard and if I don’t stop typing it’s going to die.

• 55 Mr. T // Oct 4, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  I’m loving the news bits :D

• 56 yns88 // Oct 4, 2008 at 8:58 pm

  There are some things that don’t quite make sense there, like the engi building a dispenser in a useless corner (perhaps he was trying to put it at the top of the stairway to block enemies?) and repairing/upgrading the sentry while facing its guns is something you quickly learn NOT to do.

  And when the demoman was stickying a certain point, he didn’t have a prioritized enemy position to detonate them; he just did it as soon as an enemy will take 1 HP damage from it, which is kind of stupid. Also rocket jumping when you’re already low on health just makes you a one-hit kill target.

  But anyway, these bots look really cool and have massive potential. To those of you saying you don’t want to be working on this: projects like this are seriously fun to work on. Designing smart algorithms for stuff like this is something I would absolutely love to make a living doing.

• 57 Kollega // Oct 4, 2008 at 9:25 pm

  Completely Off-topic:
  Luftwaffe (uncountable) From Luft ‘air’ + Waffe ‘weapon’. The German air force until the end of the Second World War. Description (c)Wiktionary.

  …
  Achievement unlocked:Luftwaffe - discover the meaning of ‘luftwaffe’.

• 58 Kollega // Oct 4, 2008 at 9:38 pm

  About the whole TF2 bot thing: please no. Getting on 23/24 server only to find out it’s full of bots is totally uncool. But i won’t mind TF2 tutorial acsessible from the main menu where some NPC (a Soldier or some new maybe) shows you basics and maybe some advanced tactics for every class.It would give newbies point to start from. And because i just love games with in-depth guide at the start.

• 59 jordan // Oct 4, 2008 at 11:24 pm

  so THATS what luftwaffe means. i understand its pronounce looft waffa. theres some useless trivia for you.

• 60 jordan // Oct 4, 2008 at 11:26 pm

  man, chris hasn’t posted in at least 2 days! i think I’m going into remission.

• 61 jordan // Oct 4, 2008 at 11:28 pm

  http://www.notmydesk.com/essays/emaul.html

  funny article chris wrote ages ago

• 62 Killa-Ewok // Oct 5, 2008 at 1:13 am

  Oh jordan please don’t start the spam again.

• 63 Roadrunner // Oct 5, 2008 at 1:28 am

  This inspired me for a crap joke.
  what kind of dance can bots do?
  The Robot

  Ahahaaa…

• 64 Killa-Ewok // Oct 5, 2008 at 2:14 am

  What kinds of jokes can comedians make?

  Crap jokes.

• 65 jackrabbit // Oct 5, 2008 at 3:22 am

  is Chris dead? no? didn’t think so. must be a lull in the gaming world.

• 66 Killa-Ewok // Oct 5, 2008 at 3:52 am

  Maybe he is doing something with his secret gift from VALVe.
  *coughL4Dcough*

• 67 Kollega // Oct 5, 2008 at 4:51 am

  OMGWTF Jordan is back?! Um… Well…
  Yes,it is pronounced “looft waffa” or maybe actually “waffe”,i’m not very confident about it.

  P.S. You liked my achievement joke or what?

• 68 Kollega // Oct 5, 2008 at 4:53 am

  And oh,Jordan,please don’t spam 1fort
  blog once again.

• 69 Mr. Brit // Oct 5, 2008 at 5:15 am

  Luft Woffa is about the closest you can get to spelling it phonetically. Europeans need to know these things in case Germany gets uppity again.

• 70 Kowl Slaw // Oct 5, 2008 at 5:28 am

  Maybe Chris is a secret agent from the future trying to stop world war 3?????????????

• 71 The Pants Were Dead // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:51 am

  Yah, German words are usually made up of two other German words (think about it…). It is the same thing with the German navie, die Kriegsmarine. Krieg is war, marine is water. They are a water war.

• 72 The Pants Were Dead // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:52 am

  Navy, excuse me.

• 73 Mr. Brit // Oct 5, 2008 at 11:53 am

  Blutsauger–Blood sucker
  Blitzkreig–Lightning war
  Germans get all the cool words.

• 74 Sinister Minister // Oct 5, 2008 at 2:25 pm

  To those saying that going on a near-full server to find out it’s full of bots–it was never that hard to figure out there were bots in servers.

  When in TFC, look at the game info, and player list. If there are several people all with the same time spent in the server, guess what? Bot city.

• 75 Arctem // Oct 5, 2008 at 3:48 pm

  Kritzkrieg - scribble war (kritzen = to scribble)

• 76 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 5, 2008 at 5:03 pm

  Hey Chris,
  you should get medical implants in your body that monitor your vital systems, and then attach wi-fi chips to those implants. Then, make an RSS feed to that wi-fi signal and put on the 1fort blog.
  That way, we can see if you’re really dead or not, to know why you can’t just post a paragraph about how the medical devices in your body affect your digestive tract.

  :)

• 77 AlphaHawk // Oct 5, 2008 at 5:30 pm

  Don’t you see though, we’re addicted. We need a hit of chris’ blog every day to be satisfied :P

  *shakes*

• 78 Kowl Slaw // Oct 5, 2008 at 5:51 pm

  I need some NOW o.o

• 79 Bobic // Oct 5, 2008 at 6:42 pm

  That settles it. He’s dead. HE HASN’T POSTED IN LIEK 3 DAIZE HE MUST BE DEAD OH NOES

• 80 The Pants Were Dead // Oct 5, 2008 at 6:52 pm

  Alright guys, who wants to start a new blog?

• 81 Shadow Hog // Oct 5, 2008 at 7:59 pm

  @74

  Actually, last I checked, TF2 makes it even EASIER to tell; it already has a column telling you how many bots are in a server, and this is when the bots are presently near useless.

• 82 Cpt. Falcon // Oct 5, 2008 at 9:50 pm

  What if I go like this:
  “http://tf-2.fr/ach.php?a=Sin Of Omission&b=Torture your fans by not updating your blog for an entire week.&c=4&d=7&e=318&f=1″

  And does anyone else see that my previous comment says: “Your comment is awaiting moderation.” in bold?

• 83 Kollega // Oct 5, 2008 at 9:50 pm

  @71:Yes,it seems so.
  @75:So that’s what Kritzkrieg means!LOL.

• 84 Kollega // Oct 5, 2008 at 9:55 pm

  P.S.It’s rather intresting to see how my in-joke caused a small debate about German words.
  P.P.S.I always seem to double post… why is that? *cougheditcoughfunctioncough*

• 85 Mr. Brit // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:36 pm

  ^^cause u suk, lulz

• 86 Badojo // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:56 pm

  Kriegsmarine = water war? Actually no. Marine is our word for navy, water is Wasser. So it’s actually a word for naval force. :P And you all know Kindergarten and Zeitgeist. In diesem Sinne: Gesundheit!

• 87 Bobic // Oct 5, 2008 at 10:58 pm

  How is Tf2 bots related to german words.

• 88 Justice // Oct 6, 2008 at 2:30 am

  Via the magic of the interwebs and a bored community.

• 89 jordan // Oct 6, 2008 at 3:26 am

  i havent spammed since that time comments got locked. i post anything, anything at all, and you all think im spamming!

• 90 jordan // Oct 6, 2008 at 3:33 am

  also, if chris finds out im commenting again, hell start deleting my comments. again.

• 91 jordan // Oct 6, 2008 at 3:36 am

  and i’m sure you all think thats a great idea.

  crap, I posted three in a row again! dont flame me!

• 92 The Pants Were Dead // Oct 6, 2008 at 3:43 am

  I stand corrected.

• 93 Kollega // Oct 6, 2008 at 5:25 am

  @85:what’s next?OMG ROFL N00B CT’S?
  @88:exactly.
  @Chris:do you prepare something HUGE for us or just ran out of ideas?

• 94 Itrade // Oct 6, 2008 at 8:25 am

  For something completely different, click my name for Eye of the Bonk.

  Also have you guys seen that video where the Heavy om nom noms the TF2 theme tune? How about the one where he yells it? What about the one that recreates one of the first few scenes from Full Metal Jacket in TF2? Google them, they’re great, especially Full Metal Fortress.

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