The next element of the Heavy Update has been revealed, and it’s an alternative to the minigun called Natascha.
Natascha deals out 25% less damage, in exchange for slowing down any player taking damage from her. So, if you’re a Heavy who has trouble with quick-footed strafing Pyros or Scouts who dodge in and out of range, this might be a good alternative for you. Less damage means they’ll take longer to kill, but slower targets means they’ll be in range longer.
Truthfully, I’m not nuts about the idea. TFC had several weapons that I didn’t care for, like drug darts and that screwed up your perception and caltrops that slowed you down if you walked over them. I think it’s a slippery slope when you start affecting how players play the game. It’s just not fun being handicapped by an enemy.
Still, the page says it only slows you down “for an instant” so perhaps it won’t be as annoying as I’m imagining. Plus, the Pyro’s air compression blast can restrict your movement, too, and I haven’t found that an annoyance at all.
73 responses so far ↓
1 CitrusFreak // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:54 am
What, no mention of the teaser background Valve included? Green and hilly, with a hint of trees?
2 Terin // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:54 am
Now Sasha, don’t be jealous.
I never found any of the movement impairing stuff too annoying in TFC. If he’s really being a nuisance, it’s easy to go a normal minigun heavy and mow him down.
3 friccish // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:55 am
Can’t wait to see what that background is all about. It is definitely NOT desert industrial. (I know this was already brought up on previous post comments, but thought it could be stated here too)
Also, how are they going to fit The other weapon, the new maps and game type, the achievement descriptions, and the new video into two more updates??? Not to mention, what about the SANDWICH?!?!?
4 J3553 // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:59 am
Hmmm……
Next will be the Gamemode and maps
or the sandwich and achievement descriptions.
Can’t wait ’til monday!
5 Sam // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:59 am
I also said how its level 5 so you get it first
6 ZomBuster // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:59 am
I see grass trees and rocks :D
7 Newt Pulsifer // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I’d rather take +20% damage from my own rocket than be slowed by a heavy. JESUS! What a crap idea
8 Suraj // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:02 pm
Using Sasha & Natasha together is going to be devastating. Either that or a Kritskrig Natasha is going to be a favorite strategy.
9 Pigbuster // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:02 pm
I’m glad they made the smart design choice and made the big ammo canister black so it’d be recognizable from a distance.
Now if only they’d do the same thing with the backburner…
As for the weapon itself, I’d rather have a minigun with a large amount of kick that could push enemies away/off of bridges, but we’ll see how this works out.
10 trapped // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Gets a ‘meh’ from me, not particularly exciting or fun sounding.
11 Kernel Panic // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:03 pm
@ Sam
It says that the gun is the second unlockable
12 Enjay // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:05 pm
Eh.
I want to see how rapidly it slows you down.
If it is like, constantly slowing you down half speed, I’m not going to enjoy playing against it.
But anything nerfing pyros will make playing spy that much easier =)
13 Sam // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:06 pm
ownt :(
14 Mr_Wizard // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:13 pm
It looks like it will have the same trouble with the pyro update, only in reverse, where those players who stuck with the airblast basically had 1 more class they had to watch out for. With Natascha, it again looks like a choice between one less class to worry about or one more. On the brightside, the kritzkrieg and this will make a good combo, and people said they thought the backburner wouldnt be used often before the pyro update was released.
Still it isnt reassuring when in the splash page it all but says “Heavies wielding Sasha will own you.”
15 Sam // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:17 pm
They just changed the text :o
16 Niteowl // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:39 pm
If they want to deal with retreating dudes, then just have the new weapon deal less damage but have a tighter firing cone. IMHO.
Is this addressing the whole “I need a medic to love me forever and ever and ever because I’m so useless without his glowy appendage of honeyied affection” problem? Doesn’t seem to.
17 CitrusFreak // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:40 pm
Good call, Sam.
Original text: The second unlockable for the Heavy, Natascha allows the Heavy to slow enemies with her bullets. Enemies taking damage from her will find themselves moving slower for an instant, encouraging them to find cover or deal with the Heavy. Unfortunately, her firepower is somewhat weaker than that of Sasha, so the Heavy will find it takes longer to finish them off. As a result, Natascha’s great to use against those that want to get away, like Scouts & Medics, and not so great against those trying to kill you. Heavies that like to jump around corners to surprise groups of enemies will also find it very useful, although it’s best to make sure there isn’t a Sasha-wielding Heavy there.
Changed text: The Heavy’s second unlockable, Natascha, slows enemies with her bullets. Anyone damaged by her will move slower for an instant, encouraging them to find cover or turn and face the Heavy, mano-a-tiny-itty-bitty-mano. Unfortunately, Natascha is slightly weaker than Sasha, so she takes longer to finish off a victim. As a result, Natascha’s great against fleeing cowards, such as Scouts & Medics, and less great against anyone actively trying to kill her master. Heavies that like to jump around corners and surprise groups of startled enemy crybabies will also find her very useful, although they should look for a Sasha-wielding enemy Heavy before they leap.
18 AlphaHawk // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Awesome. Will have to see how it goes.
19 HoW Monty // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:48 pm
Why is my post awaiting moderation?
20 Tim // Aug 15, 2008 at 12:50 pm
Yeah, a normal heavy could easily own one of these Natascha-wielding ones…
21 roBurky // Aug 15, 2008 at 1:03 pm
I’m a little disappointed that the visual difference from the original is quite subtle again. Although thankfully it’s not as bad as the backburner.
22 a westie // Aug 15, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Hmm, there’s another Tim on this server. Guess I’ll have to use my TF2 name and face full life consequences.
I don’t see this being much more annoying than sentry push or the push from Sasha. I mean, he’s a heavy. Unless you have a plan, you’re gonna run away.
To even out the fight between regular heavy and Natascha heavy, Natascha heavy should get 100 extra health points.
The hint in the background obviously means that it’ll be springtime in the new gamemode. Being environmentally conscious locavores, the teams then go on to make the best organic vegan sandwiches using the freshest foods of the season.
23 Nonomu198 // Aug 15, 2008 at 1:25 pm
Hmm… the background looks like a mountain. I hope it’s going to be full with tunnels, so I get to pwn all the heavies in closed space.
And is it only me, or is the desing highly uncreative? I mean, it is sasha with some visible strap. Wee.
24 Sumguy21 // Aug 15, 2008 at 1:44 pm
Sounds GAY
25 Generic Username // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:01 pm
Sounds… Alright.
I’m now much more interested in his shotgun replacement, which hopefully will be something that encourages players to switch to the secondary weapon.
26 n00bie51 // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:04 pm
Meh, I’m kinda disappointed. I thought it would be much more interesting than slowing players down.
Not saying that it won’t have a significant effect on gameplay or anything.
27 Lack_26 // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:17 pm
This is exactly the sort of thing I was hoping to avoid, when they opened up to the public for design ideas I was hoping that the ideas they picked would be crazy, fun and exciting. Unfortunately they seem to have done what I always expected them to do, which is ignore everyone and go for some reasonably boring ideas of their own. A pretty poor showing, would those roller-skates have hurt that much…
The Valve’s deafness ruins TF2.
28 Bandito // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:23 pm
Were heavies getting killed constantly by scouts and medics? Why bother?
They need protection from snipers and spies, and neither this nor the gloves do anything about that. Also, weren’t these weapons supposed to make lone heavies more effective? This makes them weaker overall, and especially weak in heavy duels, which means they’ll need medics even more.
Oh, well. It won’t break the game, but I agree it’s disappointing.
29 Soulwax // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Jesus Christ. How about waiting and seeing how it plays out before you start whinging about it. If we’re lucky it might just be one of those things that sounds bad on paper but actually turns out to be pretty good. Like dipping your balls in honey and letting a dog li…
30 MasterSref // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:45 pm
@bandito
Heavies weren’t getting killed by scouts or medics, but they were consistently unable to kill them because the scout or medic could just run away. The heavy was weak while alone because any class that didn’t want to face him could simply run and wait for reinforcements.
In this way natascha does help the lone heavy. Keep in mind that even with the damage penalty a heavy with natascha is going to kill a target in medium-close range in less than 3 seconds.
31 CitrusFreak // Aug 15, 2008 at 2:48 pm
I. EAT. YOUR. SANDVICH.
Konspicuous Konsumption: Eat 100 sandviches.
I EAT IT UP!
32 Tom // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:03 pm
@bandito: why should they get additional protection against spies and snipers? those are the counters to the heavy so making a heavy good against them would make heavies overpowered.
33 Bandito // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:15 pm
@mastersref
I’ve just been reading about it on another site and apparently some medics and scouts believe they can consistently take down a heavy. I had no idea. If heavies are getting killed often by “puny” characters, this could be the solution to an annoying problem. I still think that heavies probably hate spies and snipers more than anyone.
Maybe that’s the idea with the alleged sandwich, that the health boost will keep a fully charged sniper shot from killing a heavy. Or maybe it’s just delicious.
34 Bandito // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:18 pm
@Tom
Look, I’ll lay my cards on the table. I don’t like spies and snipers. I don’t care if the heavy update breaks the game, I just want him to kill those sneaky spies and those cocky snipers.
35 Dzamir // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:19 pm
They have updated the description of the achievements! :D
http://steamgames.com/tf2/heavy/kgb.htm
WOAAAH! :D
36 a westie // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:23 pm
@niteowl: It does help, in that it makes it harder for enemies to retreat. Usually, the heavy starts the damage, the enemy runs away, and ideally, a teammate runs after the enemy or catches them in an ambush, getting the heavy an assist, or that ally keeps the enemy from running away, getting the heavy a kill.
Now, the heavy can slow down an enemy, move in for a boxing-glove kill, and then use those crits to go on a rampage.
37 Dzamir // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:23 pm
AND IT’S CONFIRMED: THERE WILL BE SANDWICHES!!!!!
Konspicuous Konsumption: Eat 100 sandviches.
38 Dzamir // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Lol CitrusFreak preceded me, sorry! :D
39 Tiler // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:38 pm
I suppose the Sandwhich is their little ‘medic’ fix, although it still seems pointless.
The problems heavies have is that A. They’re slow, and B. Their gun only works well at close ranges. To get close enough to kill anything makes them vulnerable to pretty much anything except sentry-less engies. Since they have so much HP, though, Medics heal more HP on them, so that lets them cancel out that damage.
I don’t see how being able to restore 100hp will fix this, nor do I see how being able to slow down whatever you’re shooting will fix this.
40 LaZodiac // Aug 15, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Perhaps by “slow down” they dont’ just mean movement speed, but slowing you down completly. Like your bullets/rockets/nades go slower, your reloading and fireing takes longer. The catch, Heavies are immune to the effect, making a Sashs Heavy a predator to you.
41 Sumguy21 // Aug 15, 2008 at 4:00 pm
THE BACKGROUND APPEARS TO BE WHITE FOREST AND DOES NOT LOOK ANYTHING LIKE TF2 HERE I HAVE DIGITALLY ALTERED THE PICTURE TO ENHANCE THE QUALITY F THE BLURRED AREAS FOR YOUR EJOYMENT PURPOSES
http://i35.tinypic.com/9tej2q.jpg
42 CitrusFreak // Aug 15, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I really hope you’re being ironic, sumguy. It’s so hard to tell on the internet…
43 VenomKing666 // Aug 15, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Hehe, I got some green lands with hints of trees, basically what I wanted as a new environment.
44 Bootsie_B // Aug 15, 2008 at 5:25 pm
Yeah, eat 100 sandviches. Just what the hell does that mean?
45 AlphaHawk // Aug 15, 2008 at 5:27 pm
STAND BY LEITLE SANDVICH!
46 Bootsie_B // Aug 15, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Wait, maybe it means: “Kill 100 scouts and drain their fluids.”
47 Mr. Munchlax // Aug 15, 2008 at 5:58 pm
No, the heavy’s shotgun replacement is a sandwich. And did anyone else notice that Division of Labor is basically the exact same thing as the medic’s Big Pharma achievment?
48 Ignosco // Aug 15, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I’m wondering why Valve chose this in particular. It just seems heavies have other more bigger problems to deal with cause I remember valve was working on fixing class problems like the lack of medic support and pyros not not being interesting/skill full enough. So they wanted Heavies to not need medics so much. I would say demomen and snipers are the bigget threat and that this wouldn’t work so well on them. Then again, it would work well on pyros but I would think they would already by close and all with the reduced damage. I guess that’s all I have to say, sorry if it’s not explained well.
49 Still Not Chris // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:13 pm
I’d rather have a heavy gun with some good sentry-level knockback, for fighting Ubers.
50 Nanosheep // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:20 pm
The gun looks awesome.
Why would I want a gun that knocks back? The minigun is only useful in close quarters, I don’t want to move them away from my effective range!
51 Still Not Chris // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:30 pm
Because the heavy has always seemed to be a walking sentry. With a tighter cone of fire, and some decent knockback, backburns are no longer guaranteed death.
Also, to whoever posted it, +100 health on a heavy is a TERRIBLE idea. We get the Backburner problem, except worse, because the heavy’s 300 goes up to 400, and when buffed by a medic as most heavies are, he goes up to 600 health. It’s times like this I need capital numbers. 6OO HEALTH. That’s DOUBLE a Nonbuffed Sasha-toter. He’d be freaking invincible, the ONLY exception being spies. He could take out a sentry without an Uber, and a minimum of fuss. He’s heavy, but not THAT heavy.
52 Newt Pulsifer // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:39 pm
Come to think about it now… it’s not too overpowered.
Of course scouts, medics and pyros will have a bad time against Natascha, but the Heavy becomes weaker against demo / soldier, and not so effective at killing sentries.
That’s a good balance, apparently…
53 LaZodiac // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:42 pm
Hey, anyone notice that you to do the Photastrika, or however its spelt, you have to be ubered for the taunt to count?
54 a westie // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:47 pm
@Still Not Chris: I was joking on that bit about 100 health. I was being sarcastic in the middle of a post that I started off serious, and then made joking.
I think it’ll be fine without a health boost. Also, I think Valve intends for the Natasha heavy to be scared of the Sasha heavy. They even say it in their blurb. The point of Natasha is to encourage heavies to take on different styles. Sasha toting heavies were meant to be the scariest team-players at midrange. Meanwhile, Natasha seems best suited to solo encounters with classes that would normally run away, making the team backup less necessary. It only makes sense for a modified heavy to be scared of the original, superstrong heavy.
55 a westie // Aug 15, 2008 at 7:50 pm
PS: Chris, they updated the achievements, so they now say how to earn them. That is SANDWICH news, right there. Look under KGB’s page on the heavy update site.
I hope this isn’t CHRIS’S BLOOD. ACHIEVEMENT SANDWICH.
56 Shawn Poulsen // Aug 15, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Little babies think I need to eat 100 sandvitchs? PAH! I eat ALL the sandvitchs! GO CRY SOME MORE!
57 LaZodiac // Aug 15, 2008 at 10:53 pm
Depending on the type of Sandwhich, this one could eat more then all of them.
58 Nonomu198 // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:14 pm
Show Trial: Kill an enemy with a taunt.
=D
But if everyone gets taunt kills now, dosen’t that makes the medic all poor and alone seeing that he didn’t get a taunt kill in his update?
59 Nonomu198 // Aug 15, 2008 at 11:37 pm
Is it only me, or does it say “Kill 10 enemies carrying your intelligence.”"? With that quotation mark.
60 Dzamir // Aug 16, 2008 at 1:38 am
@Nonomu198
I think is a typo
61 AlphaHawk // Aug 16, 2008 at 2:44 am
Achievement Servers, prepare for the flood again.
62 Gothic // Aug 16, 2008 at 2:51 am
I’ll be ready with my flamer to Make Bacon.
63 Turyx // Aug 16, 2008 at 5:08 am
“Heavy Industry: Fire $200,000 worth of minigun rounds in a single life.”
I think in the video he said $400,000 is 12 seconds shooting, so it’s only 6 seconds for the achievement?
64 Bootsie_B // Aug 16, 2008 at 6:53 am
Completely off topic, but Chris; I think ou should do a review of cp_bestinclass_v2.
65 Nonomu198 // Aug 16, 2008 at 7:02 am
Maybe the bullet price went down since the 60′.
66 a westie // Aug 16, 2008 at 8:38 am
@Turyx: It fires 6 bullets per second/360 bullets per minute according to some numbers on TF2wiki. If we allow bullets to still be $200 (The dollar is falling, and I suspect they’re Russian, so they could be costing more now), it would need to shoot 2,000 bullets to reach 400,000. Multiply that all up, unit conversion stye (1 second/6 bullets * 2,000 bullets), and we’ve got to shoot for 333.3333 seconds, or about 5 minutes and 33 seconds to get the achievement.
As for why Valve said it was so fast? Maybe she broke when that jerk touched Sasha ;_;
67 a westie // Aug 16, 2008 at 8:40 am
BTW, the heavy claims he shoots 10,000 rounds per minute in the vid, or 166.7 bullets a second. Pretty major difference.
68 Pigbuster // Aug 16, 2008 at 9:09 am
@ 58 Nonomu198
Which of the Medic’s taunts could actually kill someone, though?
I suppose he could bow into them, but that just seems weird.
69 Mr. Brit // Aug 16, 2008 at 9:29 am
@68 Yeah, people seem to be demanding taunt kills for every class but it just won’t work. Spy’s knife taunt might but that is about it.
Also, people complaining this doesn’t help heavy’s without Medics, Chris theorised that they have three sets of criteria one for each weapon. So the KGB fixes the problem that Heavies rarely use their fists. Natascha stops the Heavy from suffering to speedy classes. Presumably the much rumoured sandwich will heal the Heavy, meaning he no longer needs Medic support as much. A minigun with knockback is a bad idea, Heavies need enemies close to do decent damage and since when has uber control been a Heavy’s problem?
Finally, can’t wait for the unveiling of the new maps! The grass is indeed greener on the other side of the fort.
70 Turyx // Aug 16, 2008 at 9:49 am
“It fires 6 bullets per second/360 bullets per minute according to some numbers on TF2wiki. If we allow bullets to still be $200 (The dollar is falling, and I suspect they’re Russian, so they could be costing more now), it would need to shoot 2,000 bullets to reach 400,000. Multiply that all up, unit conversion stye (1 second/6 bullets * 2,000 bullets), and we’ve got to shoot for 333.3333 seconds, or about 5 minutes and 33 seconds to get the achievement.”
Well, that’s harder than I thought :D
I don’t think a Minigun with knockback is a bad idea, it would play different. So Sasha would be for attack to kill everything, and a weapon with knocback would be to defend.
For example they’re capturing your point, you just shoot at them and send them flying.
Or an Ubercharged Pyro is trying to destroy sentries, you shoot at them to send them back and waste the charge
71 Nonomu198 // Aug 16, 2008 at 9:52 am
@Pigbuster
The saw taunt.
Just think about it, you are a medic, healing a heavy. All of the sudden, a pyro comes, and take on the heavy (I know you should usually should go for the medic, but it happends).
Wouldn’t it be great if you could give the heavy one last tune to listen to, seeing from his voice commands that he loves music, and in the meantime avenging his death by playing a note that makes the pyro’s head explode? That’s pure gold.
72 Manjo // Aug 16, 2008 at 12:42 pm
My question is if Natascha will be able to slow ubered people. If so it may be useful on defense since the combined knockback of sentries would make it hard to advance. It’d also help in the beginning where both teams often uber and kinda run by each other to the things that are killable.
73 atomicthumbs // Aug 17, 2008 at 11:45 pm
USE NATASCHA TO SLOW LEEETLE CART
Leave a Comment