There are few final items from the Pyro Pack update that I never gave you my all-important opinion on, so let’s get to them now, won’t you?
Changes to Well (CP)
They added a stairwell to the second floor, which is good for attackage but not so good for defensening. It’s the same stairwell they added to the CTF version. It makes it easy to get upstairs without having to cross the floor of the main room inside the building, meaning snipers need to watch their backs for incoming spies and pyros.
They also redistributed the health and ammo a bit, which I haven’t really noticed since I’ve only played it once, as a pyro, and I was busy trying (and dying) to get my taunt-kill.
Changes to Well (CTF)
They shortened the map some, by removing the central building and replacing it with a small covering over the train tracks. The trains still run, side by side, and there’s some ammo and health on the tracks. There are some boxes piled up that allow you to get onto the roof of the covering via some stationary box cars.
Unfortunately, the water tunnels out of the bases are now kinda useless. They terminate in the moats outside the base instead of reaching the central area, so there’s no real point in using them to slip out of your base. Which sucks, as it was a great route for spies to take and an overall good ambush route. It’d be nice if they connected to each other or at least popped up somewhere near the middle of the map, otherwise, they’re just not useful (except if you’re on fire and need to cool off).
The changes still don’t make Well a good ctf map, I don’t think. A single engie is gonna have trouble covering the intel with a sentry due to the intel room being so darn big. If you build on top of the intel, you’ll get spammed from range; if you cover one door they’ll just come in the other. It’s just a really big room to cover by yourself, and with the base itself being so huge, none of your teammates are going to be anywhere near you unless they’re specifically helping you out.
I think if they were going to shorten the map, they should have made the bases smaller instead of the area outside the bases. A map like 2Fort, Mach 4, or Chaos work better for ctf because the bases are relatively small, and so spawning teammates are going to be close by if an engie needs help defending. I’d say make the water routes somehow useful again and crop the bases in half. Lose the whole rear of the base and just stick the intel between those twin stairwells that lead to the balcony (or maybe on the balcony itself), and maybe put spawn rooms at the end of the two tunnels that lead into the original intel room.
Also, looking at Well as both a CP and a CTF map makes me think it could be both a CP and a CTF map at the same time. A hybrid could be interesting, where capping a point could open up new routes to the intel, sort of like Steel changes the map when you cap a point, only the points could be recapped by the other team. Say, capturing the middle point opens up that new stairwell to the second floor, and capping a third point outside the base opens up the water routes into the base, perhaps. Or something. Some setup that would make owning the exterior areas worthwhile and give you some advantage when you cap a point. Someone make that for me and I’ll tell you if I like it.
Soldier Changes
So, the soldier takes full damage from his own rockets now, instead of the 40% discount he was getting, except when he’s rocket jumping. I’m definitely feeling it when I play soldier. I won’t say I kill myself a lot more after the changes, but I definitely kill myself a lot quicker. The rocket jump detection doesn’t seem to be 100%, either, as I’ve taken full damage even while rocket jumping a couple times. That could possibly be chalked up to the fact that I’m a fairly spazzy rocketjumper, though.
Like the ammo dropoff, I’m sure I’ll get used to it, but career soldiers are probably feeling a bit of a hit. No worries, someday you’ll get your alt-weapons too, soldiers.
Pyro Flame Falloff
The flamethrower damage used to fall off a bit, so if you were just at the edge of the flames, you wouldn’t get hurt as badly as when the pyro had his spout right up in your business. This has changed, and the flames now do uniform damage. I’m still not convinced the pyros are overpowered, but they’re definitely way more dangerous. I’m seeing most pyros with backburners nowadays, because while the compressed air blast is a hoot, extra health and crit flames are way more useful and it doesn’t always seem to require the pyro to hit you square in the back to do full crit damage (similar to the spy sometimes backstabbing you in the forehead).
Friend Icons
While you’re ingame, you can now see which of your playmates are your steam buddies. That’s nice; I play with a pretty familiar crew most nights, so I can tell at a glance which ones I haven’t friended yet because I hate them. No, seriously, you might play with someone a lot and have just never realized that they’re not on your list.
Join Messages
You can now see if someone randomly joined a team or picked one. Good for accusing people of teamstacking if that’s your scene.
(Return of the) Bug Reporter
Instead of spamming the Steam forums or your 1Fort blog or, worse, your mic, with all your various TF2 problems, you can report them right in-game to Valve, thus making some poor intern very, very busy.
44 responses so far ↓
1 b4dboyz- // Jun 30, 2008 at 10:15 am
haha call valve a fag in-game, classic.
2 Druid Aidan // Jun 30, 2008 at 10:26 am
nice to see the pryo getting a powerboost
Crossing my fingers for the spy next
3 Trid3nt // Jun 30, 2008 at 10:53 am
That title scared me
4 Alexander // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:04 am
I think when they say “Not affecting rocket jumps”; they meant it won’t change the distance you’ll fly, not the damage.
Also, face-stabbing more often than not is just the spy went into the backstab animation and then you turned around. Usually backstabs count from above and on the sides, but I haven’t seen the backburner do this.
I think the next upgrade will be the scout. They already have the model for a nailgun, and I remember seeing a reference to it somewhere…
5 Jonah // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:04 am
Look! Tags! Four times in a row even. Chris why so charitable all of a sudden?
6 J3553 // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:07 am
Would a soldier upgrade be little or no damage from rocket jumping, but the rockets do less damage to other people and not that far rocket jumping?
Eech, that sentence sounded bad. Grammar Check?
7 Terin // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:12 am
Er, no Alexander, it’s meant to not affect the damage done to you when you rocket jump. You usually only do about 40-50 damage to yourself per rocket jump.
8 J3553 // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:18 am
Just re-read the article and realized that rocket jumping damage is the same, while accidental shots near you are full damage. Right?
Also, you’ve called Valve a fag, what more can you do?
9 DeCreaux // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:23 am
The Spy does sort of need a bit of help in many maps, like for Goldrush, or any map where there is just too much constant chaos for a disguised spy to survive undetected. However their sapper device could use some restricting, say simply a cap on the number being used at any time by a single spy, or just giving them an ammo count for them. That way, a single spy can’t keep a single engi busy unsapping his teleporter, dispenser, and sentry farm while the spy simply makes a run to the device the engi JUST unsapped! Or a single spy completely pwning a large farm of teleporter exits and dispensers (less of a qualm, but still an issue) with sappers.
There is a trade off situation. A sapper device of a finite number (say, 3 - 5) but prevents the spy from catching fire as long as they have the device out.
Other Ideas:
Crit gun. A single shot, very slow reload, shotgun (short range) that delivers a critical hit every time. Replaces the revolver.
Throwing knife. Does 75% of total health (200hpt unit loses 150hpts per throwing knife, i.e. two knives will kill someone), infinite number, never crits, no instant kills, but is a thrown/fired weapon with a short range, works similliar to the Demo’s launcher (arc fire).
10 SnappyCrunch // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:32 am
The Bug Reporter has been there since the TF2 beta, and every time I’ve played TF2 since. Not sure why you just noticed it now :-)
11 FunkyLlama // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:57 am
Because they took it out until that update.
12 Trid3nt // Jun 30, 2008 at 12:18 pm
@DeCreaux:
What would be the point of a 100% crit weapon, why not just make it have high damage and no crits?
13 Turyx // Jun 30, 2008 at 12:19 pm
“Usually backstabs count from above and on the sides, but I haven’t seen the backburner do this.”
Backburner does crits from above and sides too. Even from bellow(I don’t know how I did it, the flames in a certain place just went trough a bridge or something)
Also during Setup Time, the “Hadouken” taunt can go through the barriers and hit the enemy if he’s close enough.
14 Sam // Jun 30, 2008 at 12:22 pm
I’m a terrible rocket/pipebomb jumper I always just hurt myself.
Did they change the damage for the demoman too?
15 Draco_2k // Jun 30, 2008 at 12:43 pm
Forget about that, someone uncovered hints of Heavy and Sniper unlocks in the GCFs!
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7809580#post7809580
16 J3553 // Jun 30, 2008 at 12:53 pm
@Draco_2k
Holy.
Crap.
Super minigun, anyone? Brass Knuckles? Something for the shotgun?
17 Mr brit // Jun 30, 2008 at 1:07 pm
ok, slightly unrelated, but on an earlier thread soemone mentioned cosmetic changes if you got all the achievements as a potential fun bonus. Me and my friend came up with a couple of ideas for costume changes:
Scout: Cricket whites.
Soldier: No idea
Pyro: Gas mask on but beach wear underneath. (Bikini or shorts)
Engineer: No idea
Heavy: No idea, maybe russian guard or something.
Demoman: A kilt and tarten top.
Medic: Scrubs with a doctor’s mask, stephoscope etc.
Sniper: No idea
Spy: Tuxedo ala Bond.
I think these would be fun unlocks that would be a laugh to see or wear. No real change to the class just cosmetic.
On topic,
Medi-Minigun–A gun that always crits when the Heavy is being healed but never otherwise and it has a smaller clip and slower wind up.
How-d’ya-like-it-shotty–Every successive hit slows down the enemy until they reach Heavy speed, less damage is done however. This would be useful for defending the intel and slowing down people who would otherwise dash straight past the heavy.
Knuckle Dusters–Same as Pentadect’s idea, they knock the target flying. No drawback needed as the fact that they have knocked the opponent away means they are more likely to escape.
Sorry it’s a long post…:p
18 garash // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:10 pm
>No worries, someday you’ll get your alt-weapons too, soldiers.
Theses are ALT weapons. Nothing that will re-power it.
It will make the class more fun yes, but it won’t give him a super advantage :(
19 Slamhound // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that Mach4 is a terrible map?
I disagree with the philosophy that any intel room should be covered by a single engineer camping behind his sentry. A defence should not just be one person. Well and 2Fort at least prevent the one-man unstoppable defence, but Mach4 positively embraces it.
Unless you’re a demo or soldier (maybe even scout), once you’re in the enemy intel room, there’s only one way out, and it’s often guarded by just one engie and his sentry, and you can’t kill him. Soldiers and demos can, but then they could also blast-jump out of the intel room. So, yeah…
There’s multiple ways into the intel rooms in Mach4, but when there’s only one way out to most of the classes, and that way out can be easily defended, it’s simply not a good map - No matter how well-decorated the map is.
20 Pentadact // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:31 pm
DeCreaux : Sir, limit my sappers at your peril. Seriously, if Valve roll out an update and the new limit is 3-5, nobody wakes up tomorrow. In the world.
The Spy vs Engy dance is probably the most perfectly balanced rivalry in the game.
Turyx: remember that the Backburner has random crits too, so you’ll sometimes see it crit from any direction. My experience has been that you have to be very exactly behind someone, and I usually don’t get any crits until they’ve been running directly away from me for a second.
Still worth it, though, and the 50 health buff is just insane. It’s sort of a shame, because I’m so much more effective with it that I can never go back to the regular flamethrower, which means no airblast fun. It wasn’t devastating like the Backburner, but it was much funnier.
21 Pentadact // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Oh yeah: I like CTF Well. It’s an offense-focused CTF map in just the same way that 2Fort is a defense-focused map. Also, last time I played it, I killed two Scouts and two Pyros in the space of ten seconds as a Spy, so it’s pretty much the best map ever made as far as I’m concerned.
22 Mr. Munchlax // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I doubt any of the classes except the engie will get another shotgun. I think both the heavy and the soldier will get a completely different weapon like the pyro did with the flare gun.
23 J3553 // Jun 30, 2008 at 2:42 pm
Am I the only one who thinks that the compressed air blast was added because one Valve Person 1 said, “Hey, wouldn’t it be funny if the Pyro could push people with his flamethrower?” and then Valve Person 2 said, “Yeah, that could be the upgrade!” Then it worked itself out to the update we know and love. Or hate. Or both.
24 Cmdt_Carpenter // Jun 30, 2008 at 3:04 pm
valve neds to brng back chikins to cp_dustbowl.
also cs_italy
25 AlphaHawk // Jun 30, 2008 at 3:28 pm
I miss the old TFC Well, that little bunker thing in the middle, the sniper area at the top and middle. Fun stuff.
26 W // Jun 30, 2008 at 3:45 pm
I got the backburner, but it doesn’t always seem to crit from behind for me. But I tend to just hold down the trigger when there’s an enemy nearby. Do you have to *start* the attack from behind for it to crit, or will it start to crit mid-burst if you move behind them?
27 Wossname // Jun 30, 2008 at 3:52 pm
I’m glad I’m not the only one wanting a CTF/CP hybrid map. Aside from using CPs to change routes ala Steel, they could also be used as checkpoints for the Intel — kind of like a PL map, but without the rails. And I’m sure there are other hybrid options out there, too.
28 Hungry Heavy // Jun 30, 2008 at 5:38 pm
W: it will start to crit.
For those that think the backburner trumps the normal flamethrower, I’ve found out that a regular flamethrower-pyro is a fantastic sentry sentry…uhh? Sentry guard? Yeah that’ll work. Sentry guard. Blow away stickies. Return rockets. Blow Grenades. Flame Spies. Split ubermedics. It’s a scary defense.
29 jordan // Jun 30, 2008 at 5:58 pm
I hate it when spies repeatedly sap mah crap and then I have to abandon everything to save my sentry then he starts sappin and i start whackin while my farm explodes around me. and in the end when he puts a sapper on and i whack it off, i still lose, and that really pisses me off, cos it doesnt matter if you catch the spie red-handed, you can do anything but try to save your shit.
30 jordan // Jun 30, 2008 at 5:59 pm
sorry, last line, “can’t do anything but save your shit”
31 DeCreaux // Jun 30, 2008 at 6:08 pm
@Trident: In case something comes out where crits don’t have an effect against the player. Something a unit as sensative as the Scout might want. But you make a decent enough point, and that might be an alternative. Another possibility is that the weapon only does crits with shots to the back, so say you stab someoen in the back near the rear of a group, you can then punch ammo into the next guy who might be faster/too far away. But if they turn around, you’re in trouble.
32 CitrusFreak // Jun 30, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Man remember back in the day when this blog got like zero comments.
This is craziness.
33 stavrosthewonderchicken // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:00 pm
It’s a servantblog! To be gay on!
34 stavrosthewonderchicken // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:01 pm
Yeah, thanks for taking out my clever comedy strikethrough, Wordpress! I hate your crispy blackened soul!
35 Slamhound // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:42 am
@Hungry_Heavy: My thoughts exactly. As far as being a team player is concerned, the normal flamer is superior in every respect.
The Backburner, on the other hand, is an excellent counter-pyro weapon. Put a regular flamer up against a BB pyro of equal ability, and the BB will win every time.
36 Turyx // Jul 1, 2008 at 4:09 am
Mr brit:
“Medi-Minigun–A gun that always crits when the Heavy is being healed but never otherwise and it has a smaller clip and slower wind up.”
When the Heavy is being healed? Isn’t that like…90% of the time?
And 100% crits with the Heavy is too much, his critics hit from very far and do a lot of damage.
Pentadact:
Yeah, didn’t think about that, maybe it was just coincidence.
I still use the Air Blast in a map called Orange X.
It has a tower in the middle with a Control Point in the roof. To go there you can go from inside the tower or outside. If you go from outside, it’s a small path, so with the Pyro I burn incoming enemies then drop them down with the Air Blast. And since it’s pretty tall, they get burned while falling for a few seconds and then they receive falling damage.
37 Mr_Wizard // Jul 1, 2008 at 6:17 am
Jordan: You can rebuild “your shit” so long as you’re alive. Kill the spy first. :P Pretty soon you’ll get good enough to kill the average spy and save your sentry, and still have 2 seconds left over to do a taunt. :D The worst engineer is the engineer who sits behind his sentry and just whacks it over and over again.
38 Alexander // Jul 1, 2008 at 12:08 pm
“Also during Setup Time, the “Hadouken” taunt can go through the barriers and hit the enemy if he’s close enough.”
Really irrelevant, seeing as most of the doors can be burned throught with the flamer.
39 Pentadact // Jul 1, 2008 at 2:12 pm
Jordan: if you haven’t already, play Spy for a bit. From his perspective, you quickly learn that the ideal situation is for the Engineer to try and save his shit - you can always out-sap his repairs, so long as you’re alive to do so. But if he goes for you straight off, it seems to take an eternity for your sappers to take out his Sentry. Even if it takes him three or four shotgun blasts, or he chases you ten metres with his wrench, he doesn’t even need to hurry back to be in plenty of time to whack his Sentry twice and save it.
Wrench is best, by the way, unless the Spy is fleeing (in which case you’re clear to save your shit, so long as you’re sure he can’t double-back and backstab you). There seem to be some special rules going on that make it ultra-likely to crit against Spies with sappers on your stuff, or perhaps just disguised Spies. And it leaves you ready to instantly repair your gun without fiddling around with weapon-switching.
40 The Linker // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Slamhound: Oh, man, I thought I was the only one that hated Mach4. But for a different reason, actually. The spawn is just so dang close to the intel! With two sentries up, any engy who dies will be back repairing it as soon as he respawns, instead of having to take a trip down a hallway or two, during which he’s vulnerable, and has to take a few seconds, of course.
Also, if you’re working away at a sentry, absolutely eveyone who died in the past 30 seconds will respawn, see you, and attack you. With 2Fort, there’s no way to know someone’s chipping away at the defenses unless the engineer says over voice chat “Help! Help! Demoman destroying my stuff! Get down there!” And even then, many people wouldn’t bother. When the spawn room comes right out into the intel room, NO ONE will just pass by and not bother, if someone’s attacking.
Note how when Valve converted CP_Well to CTF_Well, they didn’t use the normal spawn points. They put them up ahead, so attacking players aren’t hounded by every single respawning enemy once they get to the intel room. At least, that’s why I would think they did it. I could be wrong, but I just don’t think they’d make a CTF map with the spawn in the intel room.
41 The Linker // Jul 1, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Hm, that post could have used some editing. To clarify, for the beginning of the second paragraph, I’m referring to an attacker working away at destroying a sentry. :)
42 .GrinderRobot // Jul 9, 2008 at 3:05 pm
I’ve had some success building up against the wall across from the intel (ctf_well). Parts of the intel room are out of range so there’s a chance a good player will get through, and it exposes you to Spies more (a problem even on the platform) but it keeps ranged attackers from picking off your gear from across the room.
43 ламинат // Aug 12, 2008 at 12:34 am
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44 ламинат // Aug 13, 2008 at 2:41 am
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